[FR] Rewind Discussion

[Janos Antero]

I know this discussion has been done before, but I don't remember the outcome.

Why is it the archmage is +1/caster level, and the Heirophant isn't?

Which of the two routes is more balanced?

Personally I consider the abilities gained about equal, if not favoring the Archmage, so I'm not sure why the Heirophant looses out on new casting, and I don't necessarily think it should.

 

[Airwolf]

That's a good question. Since I haven't played a either I never thought about it.

I think I will make a pediction, this thread will move to the D&D rules forum.

I will be interested to see what the answer is.

 

[Janos Antero]

Probably will get moved, but it'll get answered quicker here for an hour or two. This is my lunchtime discussion.

Oops was that out loud?!

 

[EricNoah]

What abilities do the Heirophants get, again? I'm not near my books...

 

[Welverin]

Here's the original version of the Archmage from SKR's site. Basically they decided they were to similar and gave the archmage spellcaster levels to differentiate the two.

 

[Janos Antero]

Interesting, but it doesn't make a great deal of sense either, when you consider the best abilities of both classes requie 9th level spells, and if you take any more than 2 levels of Heirophant or Archmage you give up your only 9th (except possibly bonus spells for very high stat).

Strange that the class geared toward being the most powerful caster won't have access to the most powerful spells, or have abilities most useful for spells he doesn't have.

Thank you for the link, I'd not seen that one before.

 

[seankreynolds]

Rich Baker felt it was strange that the archmage, which implied "the best mage," had a lower spellcasting ability than a straight wizard. So he tinkered with the class, gave it a spellcasting progression, made it pay for its cool abilities, and added some stiff prereqs. That's why the archmage and hierophant are different.

 

[drnuncheon]

Strange that the class geared toward being the most powerful caster won't have access to the most powerful spells, or have abilities most useful for spells he doesn't have.

Well, remember that the FRCS also saw the first of the 'proto-Epic' rules for advancing beyond 20th level. Most archmages probably were originally Wiz20 before they started into Archmage.

 

[Janos Antero]

Thanks Sean, and true drnuncheon.

So does anyone think a Heirophant that is basically the current Archmage would work/be abusive?

Keep the current Heirophant abilities, but add prices roughly equal to the Archmage, and add back in progression?