[FR] Tell me about Fiends. Death, Life, Travel.

[Kyrail]

I'm mostly looking for Forgotten Realms info, but anything that has been confirmed or is often considered standard practice for any D&D setting is helpful. I imagine Planescape has some info on this that would be useful!

In Forgotten Realms deities can die, and do... regularly. So it reasons that outsiders can dies as well. But then again death is a complicated thing for deities and not quite the same as mortals... it's more like their power disperses or is taken by another deity. Hence why so many deities have came back after death. Outsiders, being similar to deities in many ways, it makes me wonder how they die.

So what happens to a fiend or celestial that dies on the Prime Material Plane? It seems canon that summoned creatures do not die. There for a demon summoned by a cleric will only be sent back to the Abyss to await his return. Are they fully healed at that point?

There have been canon sources that have different assertions to what happens then. Are they banished for 101 years like some of the books? Under what conditions can they return? Does this only apply to stronger demons? Is this only applicable for demons that were not summoned?

Now its my assumption that gate is not a summon, simply a portal into a plane. Therefore they are no longer summoned creatures, just non-native outsiders. Planeshift as well.

What happens to a non summoned demon outside their home plane? Do they die forever? Do they become a larvae? Do they rejoin the Abyssal energy? Are they simply banished for 101 years? Are they sent back to the Abyss with no restrictions?

Lastly what stops demons from simply portalling into Fareun at will? They have the spells. It seems often assumed that mortals have to gate or summon them in, which means there is some kind of restriction on these outsiders to enter the prime material. That makes sense or you would see a lot more demons running around the Prime. If there are restrictions do they apply to all outsiders?

Thanks for your help!

 

[kyuss]

excellent questions. i'd like to hear what people's general take on those issues is as well.

 

[wingsandsword]

Lastly what stops demons from simply portalling into Fareun at will? They have the spells. It seems often assumed that mortals have to gate or summon them in, which means there is some kind of restriction on these outsiders to enter the prime material. That makes sense or you would see a lot more demons running around the Prime. If there are restrictions do they apply to all outsiders?

I always saw it as they could, but they'd much rather be summoned. . .by somebody they could turn on or control.

As you noted, summoned demons are generally regarded as unable to permanently die while they are summoned. If they die when not summoned, even if their energies go back to the lower planes, or even if they survive but go back to being a larvae, they have lost centuries or millennia of work trying to progress up the hierarchy of fiends.

Look at it from a Fiend's perspective: you are a several millennia old being that has had to betray and murder countless beings to get where you are and are out for yourself first and foremost, and it will be many millennia more before you get anywhere near the top of the heap. The best way to get promoted is to promote the goals of your bosses, which generally involves corrupting mortal souls and field work on the Prime Material Plane. Do you want to risk your immortal existence (or at least the thousands of years of advancement you've achieved) for just another assignment? Wouldn't you rather trick some weak-willed mortal summoner to invite you there safely, then turn the tables on him, get your first corrupted soul of the day, and have a license to freely roam the material plane with no real permanent risk to you?

 

[Kyrail]

I always saw it as they could, but they'd much rather be summoned. . .by somebody they could turn on or control.

As you noted, summoned demons are generally regarded as unable to permanently die while they are summoned. If they die when not summoned, even if their energies go back to the lower planes, or even if they survive but go back to being a larvae, they have lost centuries or millennia of work trying to progress up the hierarchy of fiends.

Look at it from a Fiend's perspective: you are a several millennia old being that has had to betray and murder countless beings to get where you are and are out for yourself first and foremost, and it will be many millennia more before you get anywhere near the top of the heap. The best way to get promoted is to promote the goals of your bosses, which generally involves corrupting mortal souls and field work on the Prime Material Plane. Do you want to risk your immortal existence (or at least the thousands of years of advancement you've achieved) for just another assignment? Wouldn't you rather trick some weak-willed mortal summoner to invite you there safely, then turn the tables on him, get your first corrupted soul of the day, and have a license to freely roam the material plane with no real permanent risk to you?

Well summoning spells all have a duration. Strictly speaking gate is not a summoning sell, it just makes a portal. It doesn't have the summoning subschool, so for effects of death I would consider them not under the protection of a summon spell.

I've heard many things about fiends who die on the Prime are banished from the prime for some duration of time, but not destroyed.

I reference the time Drizzt killed... I think his name was Ertuu in the icewind dale trilogy and the demon was simply sent back and had to wait on a summon to return.

But books are often contradictory with the rules.

Edit: Holy cripes, I google searched this and... I came up with a thread I posted on ENworld asking the same question 3 years ago. My memory is so bad. I don't think I ever checked that thread after my last post.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=107468