[FR] Waterdeep in Ashes

[Jovu]

Here we go again... Gate lasts ONE round per level, so an army actually can't really use them to move into a city, unless it's very small army - if you had enough 17th+ level spellcasters to pull it off, the army itself would be completely irrelevant compared to what they could do.

Also, using Gate to summon something from another plane costs 1000xp.

Not to mention that all the high level wizards and clerics in the place would likely have something to say about that, and that this particular army is being led by 6th-10th level wizards, so it's not exactly going to be gating anything in anytime soon.

Here's a spell that is better than gate for army use. Fistandantilus's Portal
Sor/Wiz 8
Duration Concentration +1 round
500 XP cost

That's right unlimited duration as long as you concentrate! Basically a same plane gate with small chance of error as in teleport. It's in the DLCS, but of couse getting the spell for the Realms won't be easy

 

[frankthedm]

Magic EMP- Without magic, waterdeeps army is suceptible to the numbers game (and nature for that matter).

~oooh~ i Like that idea! An epic level Mord's Disjuntion.

Just what the Forgettable Realms needs!

 

[DM_Matt]

Waterdeep cannot be plausably, suddenly, sacked. It can be defeated, but not by sometihng that you just have pop up and sweep through, barring a Far Realms invasion or something like that, which would then require the sort of invading force that will become the entire world's big bad. This has to brew for a while..Alliences need to be made, people porperly manipulated, forces gathered, ntegrates, mobilized and supplied in rediculous numbers, massive cooperation by a huge portion of the world's evil, etc.

For advice, tohugh, read Elaine Cunningham's aweful novel the sorta destoryed Evermeet. She tried her best, but it just turned out seeming ludicrous. The same will happen with Waterdeep, but if you don't mind, go for it.


(Note, its not like I'm a purist...I destroyed Silverymoon and all the big goods IMC...but its not the sort of thing that happens overnight or subtlely.)

PS: If Evermeet retains even half of its naval and air power from after that godawful book, it oculd blockade the port of a captured Waterdeep and there wouldnt be a darn thing that any collection of forcfes in that region could do about it.

 

[frankthedm]

Waterdeep cannot be plausably, suddenly, sacked. It can be defeated, but not by sometihng that you just have pop up and sweep through, barring a Far Realms invasion...

Licking my 2d6 sets of lips at that lovely idea.

 

[Carnifex]

Heheh. I notice you said " large army of humans and humanoids was gathered by a Zhentish cleric of Bane and sent off to conquer/destroy Waterdeep".

So they don't *have* to keep hold of the city, and depending on the army make-up, it's quite likely that the invaders will just go on a rampage and kill everybody they get their hands on, man woman or child. I'd imagine the army leaders would quite likely be aware of the logistical problems of them keeping hold of the city.

SImply have the PC's return to Waterdeep to find it a smoking crater where ocne a fine city was. Remember, if they just slaughter the populace, burn down and topple the buildings, and then leave, they wont have any problems ith further resistance, while also denying their enemies the possibility of recapturing Waterdeep. Rebuilding the place from the ground up would be one hell of a challenge (which makes me think, they could also barter for devilish help with the assault, it'd make it a lot easier).

 

[Carnifex]

PS: If Evermeet retains even half of its naval and air power from after that godawful book, it oculd blockade the port of a captured Waterdeep and there wouldnt be a darn thing that any collection of forcfes in that region could do about it.

This is why I reckon there's no point in the leaders of the invading force trying to keep the city. They should just sack it and raze it to the ground.

 

[Morik]

Economic Diseaster would follow

Gosh!!

Waterdeep down through an anti-magic Juggernaut of Epic Size! This is like the Russians conquer the US with a hundred-thousand battle tank!

I have no qualms about that Waterdeep is brought down by an army force. At the end it is your campaign and you do with it what you want.

While the players and the rest of Faerun have to live with the consequences you, the DM, have to live with it too.

I mean, your real work will beginn NOW!
You have to adjust so many things that (if your players asked thousand and thousand of questions because of the "the day after") your head will be spinning soon.

Consider alone the economic diseaster of the region. So many nations and PEOPLE in particular of the surrounding areas are depending on the good nature trade of Waterdeep as THE center of trade.

Waterdeep down means Neverwinter and several other cities down also. It is not true that the trade rivals of Waterdeep will only benefit from that encounter. Other cities as well will face a deep cut in their trade too.

So many people will die of hunger and pain in the surrounding area. It will be a huge cemetary.

It's like, really, you would drop the "A-Bomb" in a major nation on Earth.

You are very brave to make a "MOVE" like that. I guess I never would have had the bravery to do that. Woah!

And you have to consider also the following.

A GREAT victory like that tends to even improve the greed in the Victors mind.

If the greatest defence are down, why not rampage the next city? And the next, and next...

What are the defenses of Neverwinter or Baldur's Gate against Waterdeep - really nothing!

That could be the beginning of a World War! Napoleon, Hitler you name it - all these people were stirred by their instant victories and they have planned to take down as much as possible.

I would wonder why anyone planning to take Waterdeep down would stop at Waterdeep.

And THAT is what other nations - even enemies of Waterdeep - would think also.

All the enemy nations of Waterdeep (like Luskan) would have a very close eye of the new rulers of the Sword Coast.

As I read of your post you didn't include the enemy nations of Waterdeep in the attack so Luskan for example will ask themself -why they won't need our help to do such an Epic Battle and the answer would be "because they didn't need us". And then they would possible go PANIC!

You can ruin every city in the Realms if you like but you cannot, IMO, do it and then say "Cool idea or what?" and then shorten the consequences only to the runied city and some minor spots in the vicinity.

This shift in the economic and military might is considered VERY HUGE and mostly all nations of the Sword Coast and far ahead will be involved in this - not only the Friends of Waterdeep.

Good luck with that - you will need it...

 

[VictorSim]

This message is to all those nay-sayers out there who say that it is impossible for a bunch of mid-level (6-9th) clerics of Bane with several thousands orcs to take out Waterdeep, as written in the Forgotten Realms. This is way too easy and I wish I was playing a villain in your campaign because I would decimate your campaign world! There are not enough high-level goodies in the FR setting to possibly offset even one competent villain!

Here would be my plan of attack if I was the villains in this scenario:

1) Pray to Bane with some big sacrifices and use commune spells to to ensure that he is on board with my plan. As the God of Strife, this attack will be right up his ally and it will certainly cause more mortals to fear him so this should be an easy sell. The deal is that we as small group of mid-level Bane zealots will destroy the seemingly impregnable Waterdeep with its over-powered uber-mages to demonstrate the might of Bane! We request that Bane, as a greater deity thwart all divine interventions by those deities who would attempt to interfere with our plans or at least provide us with an equally powerful divine intervention on a case-by-case basis.

2) Our diplomatic (+19 diplomacy skill 12 ranks in skill, 5 from a charisma of 20 (18 plus 2 stat gains) and +2 for a skill focus feat) 9th level cleric with Craft Wondrous Item feat makes himself an amulet of diplomacy +30 and adds his own skills so that he can make a Diplomacy check of 50 on anything but a 1. This means that our uber-diplomat can automatically make even the most hostile opponent friendly (see chart in the DMG for NPC reactions). More importantly this skill increase does not affect opponents directly so spell resistance and magical defences and immunities are irrelevant.

3) Send our uber-diplomat into UnderMountain to meet with the mighty Halaster. Make an alliance with Halaster that he will not interfere with our plans and will allow our army to use UnderMountain as the base for our assault on Waterdeep. Convince Halaster to throw in the maps of the upper levels of UnderMountain and the secrets to several dozen of his portals throughout the Realms.

4) Being a well organized, secretive lawful evil society with ample contacts with the goblinoid races. We maneuver hundreds of orcish tribes to these scattered portals and convince them to enter Undermountain through this remote locations. Orcs and goblins start disappearing throughout the realms but who is really going to notice or care?

5) On the other side of each of the portals have some allied spectres (being lawful evil and anti-life they should practically drool incorporeally to be part of this plan) waiting. The spectres immediately slay each goblinoid that comes through the portals turning the victim into spectres. Continue the plan until we have amassed approximately 100,000 spectres. One of the northern citadels used to have a 100,000 orcs on its own as I recall. At 1 orc per portal per round (being a highly organized death machine society) with less than 10 portals I can move over 100,000 orcs/wraiths into Undermountain in less than a day. Being undead there are no supply line issues to deal with.

6) Undermountain defences make it virtually impossible for even the uber-mages of Waterdeep to know what is going on within its caverns therefore no one should have any clue as to the hell that is about to take place. Just before dusk have the spectre army move from Undermountain into the sewers (many such connections exist according to the descriptions) and spread out throughout the city. Being incorporeal the spectres can spread out by travelling through the walls themselves being virtually undetectable.

7) Once dusk falls all spectres fly through the ground in a widely scattered pattern (preventing area of effect spells from killing several of them at once) seeking out as many victims as they can find to kill as quickly as possible. The high speed of spectres combined with the fact that each victim turns into a spectre within rounds means that within minutes everyone in the city who is under approximately 10th level should be a spectre. The high level NPCs and uber-NPCs will be able to flee via magic and some localized areas with magical defences may be able to thwart spectre attacks but the city as a whole is completely destroyed!

Mission accomplished.
Bane Rules!

Victor Sim
Destroyer of Worlds

 

[dagger]

It is that way now...

Its how the game is run by the DM that makes a world (any world) unbalanced and uninteresting.

What you mean the Realms might be a more balanced and interesting place to play?

 

[cildarith]

If I had PCs running to Waterdeep like babes to their mother everytime they needed something, I would drop a monster asteroid on that city so fast it would make their heads spin.

Asteroids = the DM's Best Friend.