Full round action

[Zanticor]

I´ve got a very silly question that me and my players have been arguing about for almost four years now. I converted from the AD&D system which said inititive was not so important since everything is supposed to work at the same time. Back in the old days you would kill the monsters and they might stab you back afther dieing because the round had not ended. This of course gave headaches but also some brillant Shakespearean drama were the evil guy delivered a long speech with his dieing breath and lob of your head before expiring. I stoped dooing this in 3.5 but always ruled that a 3.5 full round action takes six sexonds and thus does not happen before your next turn starts. This always bummed out my druid to no end because a full round casting time for a natures ally is sure to be interrupted and "can attack immediately" loses its meaning if it is after the enemy has had his turn. In the same way it turns sorcerer meta magic into something pointless and spells like sleep and enlarge person become a pain.
If you don´t agree with my rulling I´m very interested in your rulling. The SRD is quite clear to me:

A spell that takes 1 round to cast is a full-round action. It comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell. You then act normally after the spell is completed.
SRD link

Now how does this work with a charge? When should I apply the damage? At the start of your next turn? Were are you standing in between? Can the charger and the charged person kill each other in the same round, even without the set for a charge action? I hope this is a silly question that someone can dispell with a wave of mouse (and a link). Anyone else with full round problems or is it just me?

Zanticor
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundActions

 

[Shin Okada]

Usual full-round action fully takes effect within one's turn, before another character (or creature) starts to take his turn.

Spells with casting time of "1 round" have their own special rule. Casting them is a full-round action AND also it comes into effect just before the beginning of your turn in the round after you began casting the spell.

This is important. For example, when a Sorcerer applies a metamagic feat on his spell (unless he has Metamagic Specialist class feature), he must take a full-round action to cast a spell with casting time of "1 standard action". But this is different from casting a "1 round" spell. In this case, while the sorcerer must take a full-round action, and thus cannot use a move action in the same round, the spell takes effect within his current turn.

 

[irdeggman]

All of you actions in a round arre resolved on your turn in the inititaive order they are not spread out over the entire round.

A full round action expends all of your actions for the round, not to be confused with taking all round to be resolved.

The SRD text you've quoted refers to a 1 round casting time not a full round action casting time - as Shin pointed out they are different.


From the SRD

Full-Round Action: A full-round action consumes all your effort during a round. The only movement you can take during a full-round action is a 5-foot step before, during, or after the action. You can also perform free actions (see below).

Some full-round actions do not allow you to take a 5-foot step.

Some full-round actions can be taken as standard actions, but only in situations when you are limited to performing only a standard action during your round. The descriptions of specific actions, below, detail which actions allow this option.

As for the charge it is a full round action whcih means it consuems all of your actions during the round and is resolved on your turn in the initiative order.

From the SRD

Attacking on a Charge: After moving, you may make a single melee attack. You get a +2 bonus on the attack roll. and take a –2 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.

A charging character gets a +2 bonus on the Strength check made to bull rush an opponent (see Bull Rush, above).

Even if you have extra attacks, such as from having a high enough base attack bonus or from using multiple weapons, you only get to make one attack during a charge.

Basically your attack ends your movement (without special feats or abilities that make it work differently that is)

 

[Zanticor]

I´m not supprised this misunderstanding was down to my experiences in the previous systems. It seems to come down to my dislike of the turn based game D&D is. But lets not start a edition war about ad&d verses 3th. I seem to be behind the times. Do you guys agree with me that spells like sleep and summons are exeptions to the general rule that your 6 seconds round happen in the blink of an eye? Only the ready action tries to remedy this. I still like my full round charge but I´m afraid it belongs in the house rule forum.

Zanticor

 

[irdeggman]

I´m not supprised this misunderstanding was down to my experiences in the previous systems. It seems to come down to my dislike of the turn based game D&D is. But lets not start a edition war about ad&d verses 3th. I seem to be behind the times. Do you guys agree with me that spells like sleep and summons are exeptions to the general rule that your 6 seconds round happen in the blink of an eye? Only the ready action tries to remedy this. I still like my full round charge but I´m afraid it belongs in the house rule forum.

Zanticor

Yes but then so would any 1 rd action.

Note that when a spntaneous caster applies a metamagic feat to his casting it becomes a full-round action. The rules actually specify what they mean here.

If you do not follow turn based in D&D you run into all kinds of issues like when does someone move and how far have they moved bofore the next person's actions take place, etc.

Basically D&D combat is very abstract and shouldn't be overanalyzed since that will only lead to brain damage.

 

[irdeggman]

I thought a bit more on this and IMO it is very important not to confuse the duration of a round and how long each character's actions take.

A round last about 6 seconds no matter how many particapants are present.

Each character's actions are broken down to the realtive amount of effert - a move action and a standard action. A swift action and pretty much inumerable free actions.

A full round actions takes all of that character's effort for the round. That is the measure.

The reason D&D is turn based is to make combat flow smoother. Image how long and difficult it would to track the 3.5 combat system (which is excessively complicated) if things were broken down to individual times and simultaneous actions.

 

[Delta]

I converted from the AD&D system which said inititive was not so important since everything is supposed to work at the same time. Back in the old days you would kill the monsters and they might stab you back afther dieing because the round had not ended.

Actually, I'll have to disagree with your understanding of how AD&D initiative worked -- that's not how it worked at all. I'd love to know where you think AD&D "said initiative was not so important". It almost sounds like you're thinking of another game entirely.

1E AD&D DMG p. 63:

Damage from successful attacks is assessed when the "to hit" score is made and damage determined, the creature so taking damage having to survive it in order to follow its attack routine.

 

[Shin Okada]

It almost sounds like you're thinking of another game entirely.

Traveller, maybe?

 

[Zanticor]

Oops I tought that was ad&d must have been the old first edition rules. I don´t have my books around. Converting to new editions is such a messy thing.

Zanticor

 

[aboyd]

Yes. D&D first edition (or at least, my red & blue basic/expert paperback manuals, which I think is first edition) has a concept of "simultaneous combat." Initiative is simple 1d6 roll for all bad guys as one group, and another 1d6 roll for all players as a group. Ties go into simultaneous mode. You're dating yourself, Zanticor.