Fury over Black Hermione Granger

[Janx]

I would say it depends on the audience and what they're basing their experiences on. I'm sure there are differences in opinion of those only familiar with the books, those only familiar with the movies and those who are not familiar with any of the previous resources.



For example this: I have absolutely no idea who Miles Morales is, so I have no judgment on this character at all. People can only judge based on their own experiences.

In the case of Hermione, I am judging everything based on my own experiences from watching the movies and not reading the books, so I can only compare future endevours to the movies, such as changing her from white to black, regardless of what she might have been from the movie. It doesn't mean a person's view based on the books are any less important than my views based on the movie, however, just different sources.

Would it be a factor of change-concern if this was a movie intended to be "year 8" of the Harry Potter series, and they just swapped in a black actress?

Or if 10 years from now, they do the remakes of the HP series, and recast it to better match the UK's demographic?

Or if this is somewhat separated new HP story, from a different studio, who wants to do their own interpretation (which is kind of what this play is)?

Personally, I think I can roll with it. obviously, I'll have my silly "hey that's not how I think it should work" moment like we have here, but I'd probably go see it, and if it's decently done, be happy with it.

 

[Dog Moon]

Personally, I think I can roll with it. obviously, I'll have my silly "hey that's not how I think it should work" moment like we have here, but I'd probably go see it, and if it's decently done, be happy with it.

Honestly, if it wasn't for this thread, I probably would have forgotten about the whole situation already because this is fairly close to how I feel.

It is just a play and one I'll probably never see. If it was a movie... I'd probably Redbox it, like I do with most movies. Just because I don't like a change doesn't mean I would completely dismiss the movie. I'm not furious. I don't hate the change. I'm not going to ban the movie from my life because of it. It's just something I don't like, but not enough that it is really affecting my life in any meaningful ways beyond having a nice discussion on EnWorld about it.

I don't really like the casting of Ben Affleck as Batman, but I still plan to see the movie and will enjoy it, or not, based on its own merit. I have less interest in seeing Harry Potter than Batman, but that's more or less my feelings on this play.

 

[Janx]

But this is getting silly now. I've no intention of repeating myself over and over, or responding to the same posts over and over, and clearly you're not going to be convinced, so I'll drop out of the debate having made my position and opinion clear. We very much disagree on that particular quirk of language, and what it means.

I do apologize for coming on too strongly on this topic.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

As I figured somebody with more experience would ammend my idea

For the dark skinned person that you've seen when they were sick/scared, would you have described them to me as "gone white with terror" or some such? Or more as "his usually midnight skin had gone several shades paler from fright"

Let me ask you this. Do you think Collin Powell is particularly dark? Compare him to the singer Seal. Pretty stark difference in skin tone, wouldn't you agree? Best part? To answer your question, yes, to both of your examples. I've met some light skinned black people that you would say they went "white with fear." I've also met some dark skinned black people that you would describe as "gone several shades paler." I've also encountered some black people who had very dark skin tones and I probably wouldn't be able to tell any difference caused by fear, sickness, etc.

I suppose its possible for an author to be ambiguous about skin tone when telling a story, if one is going to insist your story has diverse characters, shouldn't they put their words where their mouth is and say so in the book, not after the fact.


I don't think it really matters in the grand scheme of things. Just not my preference for handling it. If I write a novel intending to be diverse, half my characters will be women, and there will be a mix of races such that the main protagonists will not be all white or all male. 10% will be gay or transgender (assuming that's a close estimate of the actual distribution). And the book will indicate such, even if it's only in passing. A reader will know "hey, that character is like me." and not feel like it is Token the Black Friend.

Anything less is likely just trying to go back and claim the title. HP probably doesn't even pass the Bechdel test.

I agree. The author should put it in the books if they are trying to make a point about diversity. Rowling didn't. Maybe she didn't think it was necessary. Maybe she thought it was obvious that there were various skin tones running around her world. In any case, she said Hermiones race wasn't given. I think we can take the creator's word as fact. Sure, we can focus on one tiny line and say "Ha! Gotcha! Hermiones is white!" because of one little line. The question is, who holds more sway in determining the race of a character? I'm going with the author of the book who created the character.

 

[Tonguez]

heh, I've been away doing Xmas stuff and didn't think this would get quite this much passion

but interesting range of views so far. Two comments to make, firstly I'm fair but not european and it is quite common for us to refer to sick or scared people "wow you look like white like a pakeha (european)" which while not quite White face is getting towards that turn of phrase and also this sentence might suggest Hermione is brown

They were there, both of them, sitting outside Florean Fortescue’s Ice Cream Parlor — Ron looking incredibly freckly, Hermione very brown, both waving frantically at him.

oh and I've also seen a black man blush red, not quite as obvious as pink skins but it does happen

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hell, if you look at my family, we range from night to day. One of my cousins is married to a woman so pale that compared to her parents & siblings, she looks like she was adopted.

 

[delericho]

Would it be a factor of change-concern if this was a movie intended to be "year 8" of the Harry Potter series, and they just swapped in a black actress?

If they were doing another sequel, all three casting choices would be wrong - they'd need to get Daniel, Emma, and Rupert back. (Also, they should get on with it, because they'd also want Maggie Smith back for a cameo...) They were lucky they were able to recast Dumbledore when they had to.

Or if 10 years from now, they do the remakes of the HP series, and recast it to better match the UK's demographic?

If doing a remake, on the other hand, they should just cast whoever they feel is best for the roles. If that means Harry or Hermione, or both, are black, then so be it. (Ron's a slightly different case, since he and all his family are repeatedly called out for their ginger hair, which narrows the field considerably.)

That said, they probably shouldn't argue from UK demographics when doing so - Hogwarts is a boarding school, and those are much less diverse than the country as a whole. And also, as far as I know, they don't teach magic.

 

[Tonguez]

If doing a remake, on the other hand, they should just cast whoever they feel is best for the roles. If that means Harry or Hermione, or both, are black, then so be it. (Ron's a slightly different case, since he and all his family are repeatedly called out for their ginger hair, which narrows the field considerably.)

not sure about acting ability

 

[delericho]

View attachment 72610
not sure about acting ability

Right, that's Ron. Now, who are you going to cast for Ginny, Arthur, Molly, Percy, Fred, and George?

The issue with Ron isn't just his ginger hair, it's that you need a whole bunch of actors who all have ginger hair and a family resemblance. But if you can find them, that's fine.

 

[Ryujin]

I agree. The author should put it in the books if they are trying to make a point about diversity. Rowling didn't. Maybe she didn't think it was necessary. Maybe she thought it was obvious that there were various skin tones running around her world. In any case, she said Hermiones race wasn't given. I think we can take the creator's word as fact. Sure, we can focus on one tiny line and say "Ha! Gotcha! Hermiones is white!" because of one little line. The question is, who holds more sway in determining the race of a character? I'm going with the author of the book who created the character.

If she left things purposely vague then I would say it was quite a smart decision, as it allows the reader to more easily see him or herself in them. When I was a child that's the sort of thing that lent all the more to being able to immerse myself in the story.