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Macbeth

First Post
I think the only category we really don't need is Puzzles and Riddles. I have yet to even try to get a check in that category, while every other category I have at least attempted to get a check in.
As for goals, the main problem is, we don't have any real goals yet. I've been putting down minor goals ("Live!" and "Party Hardy") just to try to get some xp (Li is still only 3rd level), but we really need some larger goals, things we'll be working on for a while.
 

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BSF

Explorer
I would love to see you guys start setting some serious goals. I am pretty sure Li could quantify wanting to find a suitable Lord and becoming a Samurai as goals. But, you guys need individual as well as group goals.
 

BSF

Explorer
Clerical Turning

I am seriously considering using some alternative rules for clerical turning. The book system is OK, but the variant in Unearthed Arcana might have a bit more flexibility. If you have looked at Unearthed Arcana, please comment on your thoughts. If you haven't, I am still very interested in what you think of the existing system. If you want to take a look at the variant, let me know.

Atually, it is OGC I think, so maybe I will just post it.
 

BSF

Explorer
Knowledge Skills

Something got me thinking last night and I thought I would be better off doing a little commentary on it.

It comes down to an issue with in-character knowledge. We have always played with knowledge skills being able to give you interesting background and sometimes monster info. When WotC revised the game in 3.5, they included a mechanic to handle monster knowledge. Please take a few minutes to look up the knowledge skills under 3.5. You may notice that there are specific mechanics in there to handle knowing anything about specific types of monsters. These mechanics are important because it provides more mechanical value to the people that choose to spend skill points in knowledge skills.

If you do not have ranks in the appropriate skill, then you have no chance of knowing anything about a specific monster until you gain in-game experience with it.

A classic example would be Trolls. As players, you are familiar with a troll's regenerative abilities. You also know that fire and acid bypass a troll's regeneration. However, your PC's may not have this information. If you do not have ranks in Knowledge (Nature), then you are not able to even try to Knowledge (Nature) roll to know anything about a troll. Well, except that it is big and green and ugly. If you do have ranks in the skill, then you can try a Knowledge (Nature) check when you encounter a troll and see what it is your PC might know.

This is an important component of the Roleplaying aspect of the game. You need to be able to roleplay the ignorance your PC might have. If you don't like that component of ignorance, you might consider allocating some skill points to knowledge skills and hope you consistently roll well.

Another example would be the lycanthropic Damage Reduction, and the fact that silver can bypass it. Without the appropriate knowledge skill, or somebody knowledgable conveying this information to you, then your PC's don't know that. (As an aside, within the campaign worldview, lycanthropy falls under Knowledge (Nature). Other shapechangers might fall under a different category though.)

Unless you have Knowledge (Religion), you are going to have a hard time identifying the best way to beat a vampire. Without Knowledge (The Planes), you are going to have a difficult time with angels, demons, devils, daemons, etc. In fact, you might not even be able to tell the difference between some of them.

Without Knowledge (Arcana) you probably won't know that the dog you just saw was a Blink Dog instead of a wild mongrel.

There is a line between player knowledge and PC knowledge. You can certainly ask around to see if people can tell you things about monsters, but you might not want to rely on rumor and myth. For a lot of commoners, a lot of these creatures are simply unbeatable. Even something as lowly as DR 5 will make it very, very difficult for the normal person to do any damage if they have fought one of these creatures. If you want your PC to have real, valuable knowledge on odd creatures, then you need to take ranks in knowledge skills. Otherwise, you won't have any idea if a wild rose will have any affect on a vampire. Nor will you realize that daylight is any more harmful to a vampire than it is to a zombie or skeleton. Unless you learn that when you are actually fighting one.

Now, using player knowledge (metagaming) to drive the decisions and actions of your PC can have repercussions. I may decide to deny some of your exp that session. I may decide to houserule a monster (or even a type) so it has different vulnerabilities, or I may come up with another solution. It's not so much a matter of punishing anyone. It's an issue of making sure people receive "fair value" for their skills. If one PC has spent skill points on Knowledge (The Planes), but nobody else has, it is not fair to let somebody else pull out their silvered weapon when they encounter a devil because the player knows it will be more effective then their +2 flaming weapon. The PC who has the skill gets to make the skill check (or blow it) and then share whatever information is known with the group.
 

BSF

Explorer
Soliciting Thought/Feedback

There are not very many of you looking at multi-classing right now, but that may change in the future. I am soliciting thoughts on using fractional increases for BAB & Saves. As some of you have recognized, multi-classing can really kill your BAB or your poor saves. In particular, this is an issue on the entry side of a class. What fractional increases do is look at each level and increment your BAB & Saves by a fraction. As is standard, you always round down.

An example would be a multi-class rogue 1/cleric 1 or rogue 1/wizard 1. At 2nd level, the BAB for both PC's would still be 0. Using fractional increases, the rogue 1/cleric 1 would have a BAB of 3/4 + 3/4 = 6/4 = +1. The rogue 1/wizard 1 would have a BAB of 3/4 + 1/2 = 5/4 = +1.

Conceptually, this keeps multi-class PC's avoid lagging as far behind normal PC's. I think this would be a good thing since it would reduce the negative impact of multi-classing for RP reasons. I am not sure if this can be badly exploited to make a character that is much more effective than a single-classed character. Thus my request for feedback. What do you guys think?
 

Russ

First Post
I'm probably one of the weakest players as far as understanding the intricacies of DND but I like the sound of getting the partial credit in the multiclassing mode. It keeps you from losing ground that you should ordinarily get for your experiences and levelling.
 

Tormal

First Post
Well, taking a look at it I am not sure whether or not it is a bonus or an exploit - if you know what I mean? I can see what you are talking about when you say it doesn't allow the multi classed characters to be lagged up. My perspective is probably distored though because I felt the multiclassing really helped Aaron in the long run. Certainly the printing staff for the books looked at this and left it for a reason? But i'm not at all opposed to changing it either! :)

As for the exp Matricies, I feel that the Puzzles and riddles needs to be dumped. I also feel that the sheet should be organized to better reflect character strengths and party strengths. I have no real say in the incantations. Personally, I think it's ok. As for Heroic sacrifices I think it should stay! That is something that I feel deserves a bit of exp credit even though it doesn't come around often! :) Otherwise everything else is perfect!

Oh, one last thing. If somone could PLEASE send me the file with the matricies in it - I need to print some out (Iamtheparad0x@hotmail.com)
 

BSF

Explorer
The fractional breakdowns work perfectly with the formulae. The issue is that the standard round down works to disadvantage multi-classers. The question is whether the round down should be considered part of the "price" for the flexibility of multi-classing.

All of this has been hashed back and forth on the boards for years. WotC decided to publish it as a variant rule in Unearthed Arcana. In many ways, it comes down to a group preference.
 

Tormal

First Post
Ok, well I really didn't have time to look at the breakdown of it but if it does equal out I say why not? I say we use the fractional even though I doubt i'll emake serious use of it. I like the concept.
 

Macbeth

First Post
I like the idea of fractional saves and BAB. I don't think it will help Li much, since he has one full BAB class and a 3/4 BAB class, but in general, I think it works well, and is hard to exploit.


By the way, something I just happened to look at the other day: would racial classes (from Unearthed Arcana) be available? It doesn't make a huge difference, but I might consider taking a few levels in human for Li, at some point. I really don't care if they're not available, Li is fine without the human class, but if it is available I'm going to give the possibility of taking a few levels more thought.
 

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