Game Mechanics And Player Agency

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.

The concept of player agency is a central pillar of all role-playing games. It is a balancing factor against the omnipotent, omniscient Game Master. For the purposes of this article, we will be focusing on the smaller-scale application of player agency and the role of game mechanics that negate or modify such agency.


From the very first iteration of Dungeons & Dragons in 1974, there have been mechanics in place in RPGs to force certain decisions upon players. A classic D&D example is the charm person spell, which allows the spell caster to bring someone under their control and command. (The 1983 D&D Basic Set even includes such a possible outcome in its very first tutorial adventure, in which your hapless Fighter may fall under the sway of Bargle and "decide" to let the outlaw magic-user go free even after murdering your friend Aleena!)

It didn't take long for other RPGs to start experimenting with even greater mechanical methods of limiting player agency. Call of Cthulhu (1981) introduced the Sanity mechanic as a way of tracking the player-characters' mental stress and degeneration in the face of mind-blasting horrors. But the Temporary Insanity rules also dictated that PCs exposed to particularly nasty shocks were no longer necessarily in control of their own actions. The current edition of the game even gives the Call of Cthulhu GM carte blanche to dictate the hapless investigator's fate, having the PC come to their senses hours later having been robbed, beaten, or even institutionalized!

King Arthur Pendragon debuted in 1985 featuring even more radical behavioral mechanics. The game's system of Traits and Passions perfectly mirrors the Arthurian tales, in which normally sensible and virtuous knights and ladies with everything to lose risk it all in the name of love, hatred, vengeance, or petty jealousy. So too are the player-knights of the game driven to foolhardy heroism or destructive madness, quite often against the players' wishes. Indeed, suffering a bout of madness in Pendragon is enough to put a player-knight out of the game sometimes for (quite literally) many game-years on end…and if the player-knight does return, they are apt to have undergone significant trauma reflected in altered statistics.

The legacies of Call of Cthulhu and King Arthur Pendragon have influenced numerous other game designs down to this day, and although the charm person spell is not nearly as all-powerful as it was when first introduced in 1974 ("If the spell is successful it will cause the charmed entity to come completely under the influence of the Magic-User until such time as the 'charm' is dispelled[.]"), it and many other mind-affecting spells and items continue to bedevil D&D adventurers of all types.

Infringing on player agency calls for great care in any circumstance. As alluded to at the top of this article, GMs already have so much power in the game, that to appear to take any away from the players is bound to rankle. This is likely why games developed mechanical means to allow GMs to do so in order to make for a more interesting story without appearing biased or arbitrary. Most players, after all, would refuse to voluntarily submit to the will of an evil wizard, to faint or flee screaming in the presence of cosmic horror, or to attack an ally or lover in a blind rage. Yet these moments are often the most memorable of a campaign, and they are facilitated by behavioral mechanics.

What do you think? What's your personal "red line" for behavioral mechanics? Do behavioral mechanics have any place in RPGs, and if so, to what extent? Most crucially: do they enhance narrative or detract from it?

contributed by David Larkins
 

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5ekyu

Hero
"Casting lots to resolve a disagreement among a group is not a thing that I or my group (or Luke Crane) invented. And using dice to establish parameters for choice, as part of playing a game, is not a new thing either. And in the context of RPGing, it's actually pretty standard."

Maybe its a reading comprehension thing on my part but it seems to me that there are two different things being conflated here intentionally...

1 in character the characters choose to cast lots, wrestle, cut cards to decide the isdue. That is the characters resolving things - even though that is using chance to do it.

2 - the players chosing (or being told by the gm) to make checks to resolve it.

This is an out of character resolution, shows no "work it out to stay together" just a metagaming style end around the issue.

That can and has proven to encourage the brinksmanship, as one sode or the other often (not limited to rpg here) sees the final end around mechanic as better chances of success than they have in character.

If i see no way to actually convince the others, enough, to follow my lead, then the small chance of winning the role off is my best strategy ( player side) and since its just a degree question for in character stubborn... No problem there.

If there is no player-side mechsnical at the end of the rainbow, it puts the pressure back on character side resolution...
 

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5ekyu

Hero
"But that doesn't stop them having PCs with different and sometimes even opposing goals and ideals. (If they didn't, there would be no need to compromise!)"

Absolutely and that's why the ability to work thru these nedds to be done between characters, for those games, not thru external checks.

A check to get past this one just sets the stage for the next one. This is pretty close to a give fish teach fish thing.

The mechanics resolution to reach a non-compromising compromise handwave does not actually resolve the problem, just hides the symptom for a while.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
It's not the proposal to go to the mechanics, but rather that we couldn't come to an agreement in the first place. It means either he or she or I could not figure out a way to cooperate short of going to mechanics. That sounds like a problem between the player and me, so I'd rather just play in another game.

I was in a game about a year ago and there was a player who would simply not agree to anything without a big debate wherein he could find no reason for his character to agree to any proposal other players would make. You know, because "that's what my character would do." It was so crazy that I would state the opposite of what I wanted so that he'd take the position I ultimately wanted. I had been in a couple one shots prior to that time where he would do the same. I stopped playing alongside him altogether. I come to play, not to debate about playing.

Oh, I see. I don't think we are imagining the same scenario. I was picturing something less confrontational: two friends playing very different characters debating whether or not they should kill the captive orc, or whether or not to take the Duke's offer, or whatever, and laughing about it the whole time...but failing to actually agree on a course of action. Yeah, if somebody is just being difficult that's different.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Oh, I see. I don't think we are imagining the same scenario. I was picturing something less confrontational: two friends playing very different characters debating whether or not they should kill the captive orc, or whether or not to take the Duke's offer, or whatever, and laughing about it the whole time...but failing to actually agree on a course of action. Yeah, if somebody is just being difficult that's different.

At my table, such a disagreement would be color for amusement and perhaps to establish something about the characters or their relationship. Ultimately, the players would know one or the other would cave, probably the person who established the disagreement in the first place. There would just never be a point where a mechanic was required.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
At my table, such a disagreement would be color for amusement and perhaps to establish something about the characters or their relationship. Ultimately, the players would know one or the other would cave, probably the person who established the disagreement in the first place. There would just never be a point where a mechanic was required.
Or the argument ends when someone unilaterally takes action?

For example, while two characters are arguing whether or not to kill a captive orc a third one just walks up and kills it....
 

pemerton

Legend
A check to get past this one just sets the stage for the next one. This is pretty close to a give fish teach fish thing.

The mechanics resolution to reach a non-compromising compromise handwave does not actually resolve the problem, just hides the symptom for a while.
I'm not sure what you think the problem is.

it seems to me that there are two different things being conflated here intentionally...

1 in character the characters choose to cast lots, wrestle, cut cards to decide the isdue. That is the characters resolving things - even though that is using chance to do it.

2 - the players chosing (or being told by the gm) to make checks to resolve it.

This is an out of character resolution, shows no "work it out to stay together" just a metagaming style end around the issue.

<snip>

If i see no way to actually convince the others, enough, to follow my lead, then the small chance of winning the role off is my best strategy ( player side) and since its just a degree question for in character stubborn... No problem there.

If there is no player-side mechsnical at the end of the rainbow, it puts the pressure back on character side resolution...
I don't think I quite follow the worry that you have in mind. But I'll try and put a response that seems to me to be on point (if it's not, let me know and I'll try again):

You seem to think it's OK if the PCs cast lots or toss a coin to decided. At the table, we would resolve that by throwing dice or tossing a coin or whatever.

In my case, the players, in character, have made their various cases for doing X rather than Y (or vice versa) and it's been going on for quite a while, and so I suggest "Can we roll dice for this." I can't really remember how we did it in 4e - it's too long ago - but in Classic Traveller each side just rolled 2d6 (the standard Traveller dice roll) with a bonus of 1 per character with Leader (which applied to only one group, as there is only one Leader in the party), and +1 per noble on the side (at least one time this cancelled out, as the Knight, Sir Glaxon - who is also the Leader - was on one side, while the Baron was on the other; I can't remember about the other time).

So one player on each side threw the dice, added the appropriate modifiers, and this resolved the discussion.

In the fiction, these are different happenings: the first (which didn't happen in my game) is the characters tossing a coin; the second (which did happen in my game) is the characters reaching a compromise, with social heft (Leader expertise, nobility) being a non-determinative but relevant factor in the outcome.

At the table, they are the same thing: bringing an end to a debate that is going round in circles by throwing dice.

So if the first is unobjectionable, why is the second a problem?
 

5ekyu

Hero
I'm not sure what you think the problem is.

I don't think I quite follow the worry that you have in mind. But I'll try and put a response that seems to me to be on point (if it's not, let me know and I'll try again):

You seem to think it's OK if the PCs cast lots or toss a coin to decided. At the table, we would resolve that by throwing dice or tossing a coin or whatever.

In my case, the players, in character, have made their various cases for doing X rather than Y (or vice versa) and it's been going on for quite a while, and so I suggest "Can we roll dice for this." I can't really remember how we did it in 4e - it's too long ago - but in Classic Traveller each side just rolled 2d6 (the standard Traveller dice roll) with a bonus of 1 per character with Leader (which applied to only one group, as there is only one Leader in the party), and +1 per noble on the side (at least one time this cancelled out, as the Knight, Sir Glaxon - who is also the Leader - was on one side, while the Baron was on the other; I can't remember about the other time).

So one player on each side threw the dice, added the appropriate modifiers, and this resolved the discussion.

In the fiction, these are different happenings: the first (which didn't happen in my game) is the characters tossing a coin; the second (which did happen in my game) is the characters reaching a compromise, with social heft (Leader expertise, nobility) being a non-determinative but relevant factor in the outcome.

At the table, they are the same thing: bringing an end to a debate that is going round in circles by throwing dice.

So if the first is unobjectionable, why is the second a problem?
The former shows actual roleplay where the characters show they can work together, shows a compromise, because in character they come to a resolution.

The second shows neither character reaching that point of showing they can compromise and leaves the "stubborn-off" still in play. It does establish that the player with the character who has the advantage on the now establish skill check has less reason to reach compromise in the future because they have now established these stubborn-offs will result in a skill check favoring his position.

Note, neither of these is always a problem for every sentient on every planet in every multiverse and there are probably zillions of worlds where the best solution is competitive swimming for the solution...

But one way puts "do these people work together" outside of the realm of "if they want to" into " if someone makes a roll" which sets it to kep recurring.

Now, to be clear, if there really isnt a disagreement, just a comic skit of disagreement, it can be resolved with rubber chickens.

But when characters actually have different and strong disagreements, in my experience, bypassing the work it out just leaves the problem unresolved to come up later.
 

pemerton

Legend
The former shows actual roleplay where the characters show they can work together, shows a compromise, because in character they come to a resolution.

The second shows neither character reaching that point of showing they can compromise and leaves the "stubborn-off" still in play. It does establish that the player with the character who has the advantage on the now establish skill check has less reason to reach compromise in the future because they have now established these stubborn-offs will result in a skill check favoring his position.
To me there seem to be two things here.

(1) The check replaces roleplay. "Roleplay" here means the players presenting arguments to one another. Either approach (casting lots in character and doing so at the table; compromising in character by casting lots at the table) brings that to an end by the rolling of dice. As far as a decision procedure is concerned, I simply can't see the difference between casting lots at the table while also imagining that the PCs are doing that, and casting lots at the table while imagining that one lot of PCs is relenting to the wishes of the other lot of PCs. I can accept that the aesthetics are different.

(2) In my experience - which is all I can report on - the fact that being a noble or a Leader grants a bonus to a check (in 4e that might be a higher CHA, although as I said I can't properly remember how I did it) doesn't generate much incentive to hold out for checks. Because in the course of the players presenting reasons to one another, quite often they do persuade one another, meaning the debate resolves itself.

But when characters actually have different and strong disagreements, in my experience, bypassing the work it out just leaves the problem unresolved to come up later.
Again, I'm not seeing what the problem is. Disagreement between PCs is one element of the many complications and challenges that drive play.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
So if the first is unobjectionable, why is the second a problem?

As I stated earlier, in one case the players are roleplaying the characters flipping a coin, simulated with dice. The players can choose to roleplay this however they like, including deciding not to abide by the result of the flip/roll. The flip doesn't dictate the character's thoughts/feelings, it just dictates how a coin landed in-game.

In the other case the coin flip is telling the player how to roleplay his character. "Oh, I lost the flip therefore my character must have been persuaded."

The first case describes part of the environment, the second case removes player agency.
 

5ekyu

Hero
To me there seem to be two things here.

(1) The check replaces roleplay. "Roleplay" here means the players presenting arguments to one another. Either approach (casting lots in character and doing so at the table; compromising in character by casting lots at the table) brings that to an end by the rolling of dice. As far as a decision procedure is concerned, I simply can't see the difference between casting lots at the table while also imagining that the PCs are doing that, and casting lots at the table while imagining that one lot of PCs is relenting to the wishes of the other lot of PCs. I can accept that the aesthetics are different.

(2) In my experience - which is all I can report on - the fact that being a noble or a Leader grants a bonus to a check (in 4e that might be a higher CHA, although as I said I can't properly remember how I did it) doesn't generate much incentive to hold out for checks. Because in the course of the players presenting reasons to one another, quite often they do persuade one another, meaning the debate resolves itself.

Again, I'm not seeing what the problem is. Disagreement between PCs is one element of the many complications and challenges that drive play.
Characters disagreeing is not a problem, no need to keep extolling the virtues of those.

Also, yes, most of the time when players disagree their in character discussion can reach agreenent, one actually convinces the other. In those cases, ,we would not be loking for how to resolve the impasse... So also not an issue relevant here.

On the other, the merits or differences of the approaches - we will just have to disagree.

I see it as a significant difference as to whether the characters as played reached a way to work thru impasses or if it had to go to out of character die rolls... Much like how i see an npc actually convincing the group to accept the deal in roleplay or the gm rolling some dice to determine thry agree.

In my experience, the roleplay it and reach actual agreement gets more investment and commitment... Less likely to revisit the debate soon as a speedbump hits.
 

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