Greetings fellow EN Worlders,
Recently a good frined of mine from HS has expressed his interrest in playing rpgs again. He hasn't played in over 10 years and took the plunge last weekend by going to UCon at U of M, Ann Arbor. He sent me some feed back, which I replied to as best I coould, but I know that many of the topics he brought up have been covered by many of the gaming pundits, scholars and proffessionals. I'm posting the email that includes the initial comments and my replies in line. These are my opinions and musings, but many have been inspired or reinforced by reading these very forums. Input and advice are requested and appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Edward J Kopp
Email follows:
Sorry all. I'm trying to get this to Droop and it keeps bouncing back.
Hey Dave (and Aaron),
Thanks for the feed back. I'll respond to items in line.
Hey Ed:
I have a lot of feedback for you on U Con. I'm sending this to Aaron because he asked about it too. There is probably not enough time for me to compose a long e-mail providing all my feedback. I will say that I had very mixed reactions and observations. I played one D&D 3.5 stand alone module and a module from Living Arcanis (Return of the Sea Lord). I did not get into the LA introductory module (Taboo) because everyone else had already played it.
Here are my thoughts:
1. About U Con and gaming in general:
* Where have all the kids gone? In more than a ten year absence from conventions or gaming, this was the first thing that struck me. I am still relatively young for this hobby. I remember playing in the 1980's and there were problems keeping the youngsters out of events for the fear of them ruining the event. I don't know what drove them out -- I suspect massive online "roleplaying" games or CCGs. I only saw a handful of people under the age of 25 or so in the RPGA area.
ed: This is an ongoing question in the rpg community. It is, in many peoples opinions (mine included), the most important issue in the hobby today. How do we attract new players, and bring back the Daves and Aarons, to the hobby? We are no longer young for this hobby, we are the median age. We fit the demographic of most gamers nation wide. In our 30's, married, careered, kids, school debts and many more responsibilities than we ever thought of having when we played for weekends at a time in our teens and early 20's (I was still spending weekends gaming in the Navy). The industry has evolved with the aging of it's consumers. Your guesses as to why there is a greying of the hobby is the prevailing wisdom. MMORPGs and CCGs are targeted at the 12-13 year old, which is the perfect age to be introduced to D&D and other rpgs. The RPGA is trying to reach out to new players, but doesn't really follow through. It's no longer the same RPGA we knew in the 90's. Last year at GenCon I interviewed Ian Richards, the guy in charge of the RPGA. Here's the link:
http://www.silven.com/articles/Default.asp?case=show&id=421
* Gamers are total nerds that don't fit into society. Maybe I have been out of it for so long, but there wasn't anyone that I played with that I would want to spend any time with outside of gaming, even if they bought the beer.
ed: Well, there are stereo types for a reason. Yes, gamers are geeks, nerds and socially awkward as a tendancy. Over the past 5 or 6 years I've met a dozen or so "Con friends" that I enjoy gaming and talking about the hobby with, and maybe even grab a drink afterwards. But nothing beats the home game where you have invited the participants and have vetted them for compatability. That's the ideal. A con is not an ideal situation. Con going is different. Unless you go in a group of 5-6 friends and register and play everything together, you are in a crap shoot. All gamers are not the stereo type In fact, my experience is just the opposite. I still run into people who full fill every gamerism of poor social skills and nonexistant personal hygien. One of my favorite gamer tshirts says, "Do NOT tell me about your character!" There are a number of online sites where gamers congregate and the ones I recommend are www.enworld.org and www.rpgnet.com EN World is mostly a d20 site and has lots of very mature, intelligent and well expressed people (many academics and professionals). There are also the trolls but it is an anti-flame forum, don't say anything Eric's grandma wouldn't want top hear (Eric Noah is the original site owner), and where lots of industry people are known to post. Rpgnet has no such rules and many trolls and flamers. It is moderated, but the forum rules are pretty loose. Of course there is www.wizards.com for the official D&D site and forums. This is where you will find most of the young, new players.
* U Con, although a small Con, was bigger than the first Gen Con I attended in (I think) 1981. Amazing!
ed: I think this is an indication of the health of the hobby (not the industry). It is also a sign of the number of gamers who have the cash to go to a con now as compared to the early days of con going. GenCon had to move to Indy because it had completely out grown Milwuakee. Remember staying out by the airport in '93? It only got worse.
2. About the new d20 system:
* I do like the new system, although the player's handbook is too text based for me. It would be impossible for Scott to read. I need more charts and better organized charts. Give me the charts at the end. Have all the charts better organized. Too much page turning. I did not play a magic user but the spells seem poorly organized to me as well. I would like to be able to have my third level spells grouped together with their major descriptions, not an alphabetical spell listing. But I did download a couple of sites that provided me a better index system.
ed: I agree. Scott would have a difficult time with the PHB, but I think the online SRD is ideal for him. He already has the software to read stuff from the internet. But once he started playing and learned the rules it would be okay. The layout of gaming books is another ongoing discussion online. Few publishers spend the time or money for an index. There are resources to over come these issues, but they are more money needed just to ease game play, and most starting gamers don't want to drop a ton of money into supplies for something they're not sold on yet. It's a hurdle that doesn't have an obvious fix.
### editorial comment: Scott is visually impared and an avid gamer, but no longer plays rpgs because of obstructions due to his disability.###
* The new skill sets are excellent and I like the ranks and modifiers
ed: I like skills and feats too.
* Some of the new skills can be abused. The one that I have a problem with is "sense motive." For example, one of the other players in the LA module was talking to a young priest about an upcoming festival. The player then announced that she was going to make a "sense motive" role. She succeeded and the DM said that she sensed that the priest was holding something back. That set off a series of (IMO) ridiculous actions by the player like casting spells, and tying up the priest with rope. So I said to her after this, "maybe the reason that he is holding something back is because six strange adventurers wearing armor and carrying swords walked into his temple and started interrogating him about the festival that his temple was organizing?" The other players and the DM looked at me funny, like, "dude, she made her sense motive role" and that alone justified her actions. In any event, I thought the "sense motive" skill could serve to short-change roleplaying.
* There is also some abuse of the "gather information" skill. See my example in section 3 with respect to the bartender example.
ed: Yes, the social skills are a problem. They inhibit, or at the least atrophy, role playing. What happended is that the designers made a way for poor role players to be on equal footing with good role players by making it a "roll" playing mechanic. There is much discussion on EN World and other sites about this very issue. The other problem was the players metagaming. That is another discussion all together.
* One minor point about the battle system and initiative. Why can a rogue do a flank attack on an already engaged combatant and get to use his backstabbing skill? Seems odd to me that a continuous melee would result in someone getting flanked and always subject to a back stab. I liked the old system of having to actually surprise someone to get a backstab multiplier.
ed: This is the concept of game balance rearing it's ugly head. The new philosphy in D&D, and most rpgs, is that no character class should be more powerful than another. So the possible damage a 10th level fighter should not be more than the same level wizard or rogue. This is an influence from the computer and online rpg. It's just one more thing that detracts from role playing.
3. About my first game, the "stand alone module"
* I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, perhaps it was my group, there was some reluctance to role play because the character histories were not as developed in the "old days." I made up a persona on the fly, but the other players seemed reluctant to do so. New con: 2 pages of stats, skills, and attributes, with a small 3-4 sentence about your character. Old con: 1/2 page of stats and equipment, with 1 page of description of your character. I fully understand that this conclusion could not be representative.
ed: This is the problem with the "Classic" games. Not enough effort put into it. I think that good classic play is vital to the con experience. The RPGA doesn't seem interested in pursuing that avenue. Unfortunately your experiance in this case is the norm.
* There was more "I ask him (NPC, example bartender) if he has seen Chlorissa or if anything unusual has been happening in town and I rolled a 18 on my gather information" instead of actually trying to talk to the bartender.
ed: Metagaming.
4. About the Living Arcanis experience
* I'm sorry Ed to criticize your baby, but I just have to ask "why?" All the RPGA "tournament" events were "Living" modules. Why? I don't understand it. And I'm going to go off in a rant on this one:
ed: Rant away.
* As for Living Arcanis, there is no backstory -- it is The Story. The Story is integral to the playing experience and it is too complicated. For Living Arcanis, I felt like I started reading Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series starting on Book 7, Chapter 21. It didn't make any sense to me. The characters were all assumed to have an incredible amount of knowledge to be able to understand what was going on in the module. On top of that, there is a separate player's handbook for LA that the DM gave to me before I could even start to create a character. Why do we need a whole new set of races, classes, calendar and nobility/lineage? Just to be different?
ed: This is why I wanted you to play Taboo instead. It's written for people with no knowledge of anything about Arcanis. You are correct. The biggest problem for LA is how quickly complex the main story arc has become. The adventures are divided into Hard Points and Soft Points. Hard points pretty much need to be played in order. Soft points are usually stand alone adventures with out connection to the main arc. What you played was part X in an X+n part Soft Point. Some times Soft Points refer to past events, but usually not, and if it's important to the plot it will be in the player blurb. Unfortunately you had the worst possible introduction to LA .
New classes, races and setting is part of how rpgs have evolved (look at WotCs product line for D&D). Like many other gamers, I don't have the time these days to devote to developing my own "homebrew" campaign. So... I play Arcanis, buy their gaming books that expand on their world, and play in the Living game to stay involved in the metaplot. If I could I'd mostly play LA at home with the same set of people on a regular basis. That way I can play an adventure for as long as I want, not with in the four hour time limit.
* How exactly do "Living" campaigns enhance roleplaying at cons? I don't see it. All the players are worried about gaining items or favors for the next module they play at some other con in three months. That is not roleplaying. The best roleplaying events are those where the setting is neutral and does not dictate roleplaying. In LA, it squelches it -- sure you know more about your character because you played it 17 times before in various conventions, but how does that add to interacting with other characters? It reduces your roleplaying, actually, because you know what is supposed to happen and how your character feeds into all the webs of plots and subplots, races and classes, that exist within The Story.
ed: An important question when considering getting involved with a Living game. What I get out of LA has a lot to do with the meta story, the mythology and secrets of the Arcanis universe (plus personal connections to the people writing a lot of the material). You really can't get a feel for the setting from a scenario played out of order. What LA provides for me is a game to play at cons with a character I've developed myself. For some reason this is important to a lot of people. I like both. I enjoy my LA and classic play equally and for different reasons. Living games may not be the best reintroduction to rpgs.
* Because The Story is so integral to the LA experience, and let's just say it is "scripted," there is not enough time in 4 hours to get the new information that the characters need to feed into their already exhaustive information to solve the "puzzle" and create a new part of the huge story arc that is constantly developing. For example, in our module, our characters were supposed to investigate the captain's council and determine which of the ten members have been acting strangely or who could be possessed by outside influences that could change an upcoming vote for the next Sea Lord. It would have been impossible in 4 hours to role play any part of this gathering information process because there was too much information. So, it turned out like this: (GM summarizing knowledge for 30-40 minutes -- "You go to the Hall of Records, you seduce members of the captain's council, you go the local thieves' guild, and you go to the wizard's guild and have them cast divination spells to find out everything you need to know about the council members, which is this: ___________) And, of course, what we found out all was woven into what our characters should have known from completing earlier modules in The Story, some of which were not completed by most players, and me not having completed any of them and thus not being able to contribute anything to solving the "puzzle." (Example -- GM: "Captain Xavier hired the noted architect who completed the Tower of Whatever, which has caused him to lose prestige." Dave: What is the Tower of Whatever? GM: Something from an earlier module. Dave: Can you be more specific? GM: No, I never played or judged that one.")
* The background or purpose of the module did not make sense to me. Why would these outsiders be allowed to come to town and start prying into the affairs of the council without interruption and in full knowledge and approval of the council, and then in the end, when the evil plot is revealed, there are a four NPCs that can easily be defeated to overcome the plot, which took 10 years to plan at great expense? It seems too odd for me. Then, at the end, the players are allowed to appoint the next Sea Lord, but the GM told us that there were several choices that make sense, but that the next time we play there is no guarantee that our choice was actually going to be used in The Story for LA. What?
ed: Again, a problem of playing an adventure in a series out of order. I'm sure if you had started with the first adventure in the series with a table of other first level players your experience as far as story continuity would have been better. The choosing of the Sea Lord issue is part of how Living campaigns (especially LA) work. Each time an adventure is run within the first three months of release a critical events summary is filled out by the DM. The results are sent in to Paradigm Concepts and which ever result prevails is the one that happens in canon.
* What is the incentive for someone new to get into any LA campaign that has been ongoing? I had to play a 1st level alongside a 10th level cleric, a 7th level wizard and a 5th level bard. I was told that LA is coming out with a big book on what everyone missed about The Story in year 1 and another big book on what everyone missed about The Story in year 2 (years related to the 20-30 modules that were released at cons during the previous calendar year). The people I was talking to were really excited about this, but I think that just reinforces my points above.
* I enjoy reading fantasy series where the plots, characters and events are well thought out and are developed. I thought that LA was more like a living novel rather than a roleplaying game.
ed: This too, is an on going discussion with in the LA community. It is increasingly difficult to introduce new people to the over all campaign. Any suggestions you might have are encouraged.
5. Where does Dave (me) go from here? I would really like to get back into role playing again. I will attend Cons and enroll in the RPGA again (do you think they have my information in their computers from 1990's?) but will be very hesitant about participating in any "Living" scenarios Three or four of my friends around here (Aaron has met) have expressed an interest in it. The problem that I see is that they are almost complete novices and I would end up judging and running the campaign, not playing. I have no problems with that but I will need to invest some of my time in that direction with no guaranteed results. I would be looking to run a campaign that resembles the campaigns we used to play in -- old-fashioned, conventional D&D, no new classes and races to introduce newer players to. But I would also like to have a rich political, geographical world that makes sense, with campaign and regional maps downloadable from the net free or inexpensive. I'm also looking for an overall "hook" that could drive the characters but is not totally mundane (e.g. the tiring characters were slaves but have been freed and want revenge), separate from the module "hook" (e.g. the daughter of the mayor was kidnapped and you have to find her). Any suggests of a conventional campaign setting Ed?
ed: Dave
Where do you go from here? Well... It depends on what you're lookiing for. If you want to get deeply involved in the hobby then just go with the basic three books (PHB, DMG, MM) and create your own setting. If that's to much work look in your FLGS, online and read reviews for a setting that fits your taste. I will happily discuss the pros and cons of any given setting. The current trend in high end rpgs is complete campaigns. There is a collection of adventures titled Shackled City that originally were published in Dungeon magazine that are linked. The publisher has collected and edited all these individual adventures and published a single volume that can take a party of adventurers from 1st to 20th level. This is a complete campaign that is written for the rules as written. No special classes or races (afaik).
The options that are available in Arcanis are just flavor of the setting. If it's not for you, there are plenty of other settings that are more traditional in the medieval western european model. Arcanis, as played at home, under a good DM with a regular group of players has everything you're looking for, except for all the flavor stuff. I happen to like those extra flavors. I find tradtional D&D settings as unimaginative and boring and the options provided by Arcanis fits my tastes. But almost every setting has these new and setting specific options. Even Eberron, the setting developed specifically to work with the d20 system making many metagame assumptions that make rpgs break down the suspension of disbelief, has a couple of new races, classes and options that are not in the core books.
I'd like your permission to quote your email for topics of discussion at EN World and LA Talk the Yahoo! discussion list for the LA campaign.
Hopefully I can help you get a game together with a setting that you enjoy running. Talk to you later,
ed-
###############################
It's a lot of stuff covered but I'd really appreciate the input of fellow EN Worlders.
Thanks in advance.
Recently a good frined of mine from HS has expressed his interrest in playing rpgs again. He hasn't played in over 10 years and took the plunge last weekend by going to UCon at U of M, Ann Arbor. He sent me some feed back, which I replied to as best I coould, but I know that many of the topics he brought up have been covered by many of the gaming pundits, scholars and proffessionals. I'm posting the email that includes the initial comments and my replies in line. These are my opinions and musings, but many have been inspired or reinforced by reading these very forums. Input and advice are requested and appreciated. Thanks in advance,
Edward J Kopp
Email follows:
Sorry all. I'm trying to get this to Droop and it keeps bouncing back.
Hey Dave (and Aaron),
Thanks for the feed back. I'll respond to items in line.
Hey Ed:
I have a lot of feedback for you on U Con. I'm sending this to Aaron because he asked about it too. There is probably not enough time for me to compose a long e-mail providing all my feedback. I will say that I had very mixed reactions and observations. I played one D&D 3.5 stand alone module and a module from Living Arcanis (Return of the Sea Lord). I did not get into the LA introductory module (Taboo) because everyone else had already played it.
Here are my thoughts:
1. About U Con and gaming in general:
* Where have all the kids gone? In more than a ten year absence from conventions or gaming, this was the first thing that struck me. I am still relatively young for this hobby. I remember playing in the 1980's and there were problems keeping the youngsters out of events for the fear of them ruining the event. I don't know what drove them out -- I suspect massive online "roleplaying" games or CCGs. I only saw a handful of people under the age of 25 or so in the RPGA area.
ed: This is an ongoing question in the rpg community. It is, in many peoples opinions (mine included), the most important issue in the hobby today. How do we attract new players, and bring back the Daves and Aarons, to the hobby? We are no longer young for this hobby, we are the median age. We fit the demographic of most gamers nation wide. In our 30's, married, careered, kids, school debts and many more responsibilities than we ever thought of having when we played for weekends at a time in our teens and early 20's (I was still spending weekends gaming in the Navy). The industry has evolved with the aging of it's consumers. Your guesses as to why there is a greying of the hobby is the prevailing wisdom. MMORPGs and CCGs are targeted at the 12-13 year old, which is the perfect age to be introduced to D&D and other rpgs. The RPGA is trying to reach out to new players, but doesn't really follow through. It's no longer the same RPGA we knew in the 90's. Last year at GenCon I interviewed Ian Richards, the guy in charge of the RPGA. Here's the link:
http://www.silven.com/articles/Default.asp?case=show&id=421
* Gamers are total nerds that don't fit into society. Maybe I have been out of it for so long, but there wasn't anyone that I played with that I would want to spend any time with outside of gaming, even if they bought the beer.
ed: Well, there are stereo types for a reason. Yes, gamers are geeks, nerds and socially awkward as a tendancy. Over the past 5 or 6 years I've met a dozen or so "Con friends" that I enjoy gaming and talking about the hobby with, and maybe even grab a drink afterwards. But nothing beats the home game where you have invited the participants and have vetted them for compatability. That's the ideal. A con is not an ideal situation. Con going is different. Unless you go in a group of 5-6 friends and register and play everything together, you are in a crap shoot. All gamers are not the stereo type In fact, my experience is just the opposite. I still run into people who full fill every gamerism of poor social skills and nonexistant personal hygien. One of my favorite gamer tshirts says, "Do NOT tell me about your character!" There are a number of online sites where gamers congregate and the ones I recommend are www.enworld.org and www.rpgnet.com EN World is mostly a d20 site and has lots of very mature, intelligent and well expressed people (many academics and professionals). There are also the trolls but it is an anti-flame forum, don't say anything Eric's grandma wouldn't want top hear (Eric Noah is the original site owner), and where lots of industry people are known to post. Rpgnet has no such rules and many trolls and flamers. It is moderated, but the forum rules are pretty loose. Of course there is www.wizards.com for the official D&D site and forums. This is where you will find most of the young, new players.
* U Con, although a small Con, was bigger than the first Gen Con I attended in (I think) 1981. Amazing!
ed: I think this is an indication of the health of the hobby (not the industry). It is also a sign of the number of gamers who have the cash to go to a con now as compared to the early days of con going. GenCon had to move to Indy because it had completely out grown Milwuakee. Remember staying out by the airport in '93? It only got worse.
2. About the new d20 system:
* I do like the new system, although the player's handbook is too text based for me. It would be impossible for Scott to read. I need more charts and better organized charts. Give me the charts at the end. Have all the charts better organized. Too much page turning. I did not play a magic user but the spells seem poorly organized to me as well. I would like to be able to have my third level spells grouped together with their major descriptions, not an alphabetical spell listing. But I did download a couple of sites that provided me a better index system.
ed: I agree. Scott would have a difficult time with the PHB, but I think the online SRD is ideal for him. He already has the software to read stuff from the internet. But once he started playing and learned the rules it would be okay. The layout of gaming books is another ongoing discussion online. Few publishers spend the time or money for an index. There are resources to over come these issues, but they are more money needed just to ease game play, and most starting gamers don't want to drop a ton of money into supplies for something they're not sold on yet. It's a hurdle that doesn't have an obvious fix.
### editorial comment: Scott is visually impared and an avid gamer, but no longer plays rpgs because of obstructions due to his disability.###
* The new skill sets are excellent and I like the ranks and modifiers
ed: I like skills and feats too.
* Some of the new skills can be abused. The one that I have a problem with is "sense motive." For example, one of the other players in the LA module was talking to a young priest about an upcoming festival. The player then announced that she was going to make a "sense motive" role. She succeeded and the DM said that she sensed that the priest was holding something back. That set off a series of (IMO) ridiculous actions by the player like casting spells, and tying up the priest with rope. So I said to her after this, "maybe the reason that he is holding something back is because six strange adventurers wearing armor and carrying swords walked into his temple and started interrogating him about the festival that his temple was organizing?" The other players and the DM looked at me funny, like, "dude, she made her sense motive role" and that alone justified her actions. In any event, I thought the "sense motive" skill could serve to short-change roleplaying.
* There is also some abuse of the "gather information" skill. See my example in section 3 with respect to the bartender example.
ed: Yes, the social skills are a problem. They inhibit, or at the least atrophy, role playing. What happended is that the designers made a way for poor role players to be on equal footing with good role players by making it a "roll" playing mechanic. There is much discussion on EN World and other sites about this very issue. The other problem was the players metagaming. That is another discussion all together.
* One minor point about the battle system and initiative. Why can a rogue do a flank attack on an already engaged combatant and get to use his backstabbing skill? Seems odd to me that a continuous melee would result in someone getting flanked and always subject to a back stab. I liked the old system of having to actually surprise someone to get a backstab multiplier.
ed: This is the concept of game balance rearing it's ugly head. The new philosphy in D&D, and most rpgs, is that no character class should be more powerful than another. So the possible damage a 10th level fighter should not be more than the same level wizard or rogue. This is an influence from the computer and online rpg. It's just one more thing that detracts from role playing.
3. About my first game, the "stand alone module"
* I thoroughly enjoyed it. However, perhaps it was my group, there was some reluctance to role play because the character histories were not as developed in the "old days." I made up a persona on the fly, but the other players seemed reluctant to do so. New con: 2 pages of stats, skills, and attributes, with a small 3-4 sentence about your character. Old con: 1/2 page of stats and equipment, with 1 page of description of your character. I fully understand that this conclusion could not be representative.
ed: This is the problem with the "Classic" games. Not enough effort put into it. I think that good classic play is vital to the con experience. The RPGA doesn't seem interested in pursuing that avenue. Unfortunately your experiance in this case is the norm.
* There was more "I ask him (NPC, example bartender) if he has seen Chlorissa or if anything unusual has been happening in town and I rolled a 18 on my gather information" instead of actually trying to talk to the bartender.
ed: Metagaming.
4. About the Living Arcanis experience
* I'm sorry Ed to criticize your baby, but I just have to ask "why?" All the RPGA "tournament" events were "Living" modules. Why? I don't understand it. And I'm going to go off in a rant on this one:
ed: Rant away.
* As for Living Arcanis, there is no backstory -- it is The Story. The Story is integral to the playing experience and it is too complicated. For Living Arcanis, I felt like I started reading Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series starting on Book 7, Chapter 21. It didn't make any sense to me. The characters were all assumed to have an incredible amount of knowledge to be able to understand what was going on in the module. On top of that, there is a separate player's handbook for LA that the DM gave to me before I could even start to create a character. Why do we need a whole new set of races, classes, calendar and nobility/lineage? Just to be different?
ed: This is why I wanted you to play Taboo instead. It's written for people with no knowledge of anything about Arcanis. You are correct. The biggest problem for LA is how quickly complex the main story arc has become. The adventures are divided into Hard Points and Soft Points. Hard points pretty much need to be played in order. Soft points are usually stand alone adventures with out connection to the main arc. What you played was part X in an X+n part Soft Point. Some times Soft Points refer to past events, but usually not, and if it's important to the plot it will be in the player blurb. Unfortunately you had the worst possible introduction to LA .
New classes, races and setting is part of how rpgs have evolved (look at WotCs product line for D&D). Like many other gamers, I don't have the time these days to devote to developing my own "homebrew" campaign. So... I play Arcanis, buy their gaming books that expand on their world, and play in the Living game to stay involved in the metaplot. If I could I'd mostly play LA at home with the same set of people on a regular basis. That way I can play an adventure for as long as I want, not with in the four hour time limit.
* How exactly do "Living" campaigns enhance roleplaying at cons? I don't see it. All the players are worried about gaining items or favors for the next module they play at some other con in three months. That is not roleplaying. The best roleplaying events are those where the setting is neutral and does not dictate roleplaying. In LA, it squelches it -- sure you know more about your character because you played it 17 times before in various conventions, but how does that add to interacting with other characters? It reduces your roleplaying, actually, because you know what is supposed to happen and how your character feeds into all the webs of plots and subplots, races and classes, that exist within The Story.
ed: An important question when considering getting involved with a Living game. What I get out of LA has a lot to do with the meta story, the mythology and secrets of the Arcanis universe (plus personal connections to the people writing a lot of the material). You really can't get a feel for the setting from a scenario played out of order. What LA provides for me is a game to play at cons with a character I've developed myself. For some reason this is important to a lot of people. I like both. I enjoy my LA and classic play equally and for different reasons. Living games may not be the best reintroduction to rpgs.
* Because The Story is so integral to the LA experience, and let's just say it is "scripted," there is not enough time in 4 hours to get the new information that the characters need to feed into their already exhaustive information to solve the "puzzle" and create a new part of the huge story arc that is constantly developing. For example, in our module, our characters were supposed to investigate the captain's council and determine which of the ten members have been acting strangely or who could be possessed by outside influences that could change an upcoming vote for the next Sea Lord. It would have been impossible in 4 hours to role play any part of this gathering information process because there was too much information. So, it turned out like this: (GM summarizing knowledge for 30-40 minutes -- "You go to the Hall of Records, you seduce members of the captain's council, you go the local thieves' guild, and you go to the wizard's guild and have them cast divination spells to find out everything you need to know about the council members, which is this: ___________) And, of course, what we found out all was woven into what our characters should have known from completing earlier modules in The Story, some of which were not completed by most players, and me not having completed any of them and thus not being able to contribute anything to solving the "puzzle." (Example -- GM: "Captain Xavier hired the noted architect who completed the Tower of Whatever, which has caused him to lose prestige." Dave: What is the Tower of Whatever? GM: Something from an earlier module. Dave: Can you be more specific? GM: No, I never played or judged that one.")
* The background or purpose of the module did not make sense to me. Why would these outsiders be allowed to come to town and start prying into the affairs of the council without interruption and in full knowledge and approval of the council, and then in the end, when the evil plot is revealed, there are a four NPCs that can easily be defeated to overcome the plot, which took 10 years to plan at great expense? It seems too odd for me. Then, at the end, the players are allowed to appoint the next Sea Lord, but the GM told us that there were several choices that make sense, but that the next time we play there is no guarantee that our choice was actually going to be used in The Story for LA. What?
ed: Again, a problem of playing an adventure in a series out of order. I'm sure if you had started with the first adventure in the series with a table of other first level players your experience as far as story continuity would have been better. The choosing of the Sea Lord issue is part of how Living campaigns (especially LA) work. Each time an adventure is run within the first three months of release a critical events summary is filled out by the DM. The results are sent in to Paradigm Concepts and which ever result prevails is the one that happens in canon.
* What is the incentive for someone new to get into any LA campaign that has been ongoing? I had to play a 1st level alongside a 10th level cleric, a 7th level wizard and a 5th level bard. I was told that LA is coming out with a big book on what everyone missed about The Story in year 1 and another big book on what everyone missed about The Story in year 2 (years related to the 20-30 modules that were released at cons during the previous calendar year). The people I was talking to were really excited about this, but I think that just reinforces my points above.
* I enjoy reading fantasy series where the plots, characters and events are well thought out and are developed. I thought that LA was more like a living novel rather than a roleplaying game.
ed: This too, is an on going discussion with in the LA community. It is increasingly difficult to introduce new people to the over all campaign. Any suggestions you might have are encouraged.
5. Where does Dave (me) go from here? I would really like to get back into role playing again. I will attend Cons and enroll in the RPGA again (do you think they have my information in their computers from 1990's?) but will be very hesitant about participating in any "Living" scenarios Three or four of my friends around here (Aaron has met) have expressed an interest in it. The problem that I see is that they are almost complete novices and I would end up judging and running the campaign, not playing. I have no problems with that but I will need to invest some of my time in that direction with no guaranteed results. I would be looking to run a campaign that resembles the campaigns we used to play in -- old-fashioned, conventional D&D, no new classes and races to introduce newer players to. But I would also like to have a rich political, geographical world that makes sense, with campaign and regional maps downloadable from the net free or inexpensive. I'm also looking for an overall "hook" that could drive the characters but is not totally mundane (e.g. the tiring characters were slaves but have been freed and want revenge), separate from the module "hook" (e.g. the daughter of the mayor was kidnapped and you have to find her). Any suggests of a conventional campaign setting Ed?
ed: Dave
Where do you go from here? Well... It depends on what you're lookiing for. If you want to get deeply involved in the hobby then just go with the basic three books (PHB, DMG, MM) and create your own setting. If that's to much work look in your FLGS, online and read reviews for a setting that fits your taste. I will happily discuss the pros and cons of any given setting. The current trend in high end rpgs is complete campaigns. There is a collection of adventures titled Shackled City that originally were published in Dungeon magazine that are linked. The publisher has collected and edited all these individual adventures and published a single volume that can take a party of adventurers from 1st to 20th level. This is a complete campaign that is written for the rules as written. No special classes or races (afaik).
The options that are available in Arcanis are just flavor of the setting. If it's not for you, there are plenty of other settings that are more traditional in the medieval western european model. Arcanis, as played at home, under a good DM with a regular group of players has everything you're looking for, except for all the flavor stuff. I happen to like those extra flavors. I find tradtional D&D settings as unimaginative and boring and the options provided by Arcanis fits my tastes. But almost every setting has these new and setting specific options. Even Eberron, the setting developed specifically to work with the d20 system making many metagame assumptions that make rpgs break down the suspension of disbelief, has a couple of new races, classes and options that are not in the core books.
I'd like your permission to quote your email for topics of discussion at EN World and LA Talk the Yahoo! discussion list for the LA campaign.
Hopefully I can help you get a game together with a setting that you enjoy running. Talk to you later,
ed-
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It's a lot of stuff covered but I'd really appreciate the input of fellow EN Worlders.
Thanks in advance.
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