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Gaming session lessons: why moving slow is important all the time, and the kid learns kiting
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 6543282" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>I'm curious how people play this type of scenario.</p><p></p><p>If the ankhegs are not hiding (and who would be hiding 24 hours a day?) and the PCs are not using stealth, then neither side should have any sort of advantage here. Why do the ankhegs get surprise?</p><p></p><p>Granted as DM, someone could state that the ankhegs are always hiding, but that seems a bit much.</p><p></p><p>Even if the ankhegs are in heavy obscurement without hiding, if they are not hiding, they are not hiding. They would move around and make noise at times, just like the PCs. They would clack their mandibles at times, just like the PCs talk at times.</p><p></p><p>The concept that group A moving into the territory of group B and because of that, group B is automatically hiding seems a bit weird. I can definitely see a DM saying both sides roll perception against the other side and if you beat their "passive stealth" (a concept that just is easier than passive perception against rolled stealth since neither side is really trying to stealth), then you get to go in the surprise round. That way, some PCs from group A might go on the surprise round and some ankhegs from group B might go on the surprise round.</p><p></p><p>This just seems to harken back to old style "the monsters always get surprise" scenarios that never made sense. It seems like a way to force feed the players a lesson in some cases.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Note: I am not saying that the OP played this wrong, I'm asking how DMs handle this type of situation, especially if group B is not explicitly trying to hide.</p><p></p><p>Note: There are cases of predators actually hiding like lions hiding in brush, waiting for prey to come along. And if that is the case with the ankhegs, fine. But, it just seems in my experience that DMs have monsters do this "predators hiding to surprise prey" happening almost all of the time, basically 24 hours a day which I kind of find weird. Why aren't the ankhegs doing the monster equivalent of snoozing in the shade some times? Why are they always alert and hiding? Why do the PCs never just stumble across snoozing monsters and the PCs get surprise (which is why I do a perception roll vs. "passive stealth" instead of the other way around, it allows for all 5 scenarios based on dice rolls, one side totally surprised, one side partially surprised, some from both sides surprised, the second side partially surprised, the second side totally surprised)?</p><p></p><p>Now if the one side is hiding, all bets are off. It's just normal passive perception vs. rolled stealth.</p><p></p><p>But why are the monsters the ones almost always getting the stealth rolls (or hiding) and the PCs the ones almost always getting passive perception? The monsters are always alert? The monsters are always hiding? The monsters are not just standing in a field at times, rooting around in the dirt looking for grubs or rodents?</p><p></p><p>The PHB mentions that if neither side is actually hiding, then neither side is surprised (which I find a bit problematic as well in some cases). I'm not sure why DMs feel the need to teach their players lessons like this.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 6543282, member: 2011"] I'm curious how people play this type of scenario. If the ankhegs are not hiding (and who would be hiding 24 hours a day?) and the PCs are not using stealth, then neither side should have any sort of advantage here. Why do the ankhegs get surprise? Granted as DM, someone could state that the ankhegs are always hiding, but that seems a bit much. Even if the ankhegs are in heavy obscurement without hiding, if they are not hiding, they are not hiding. They would move around and make noise at times, just like the PCs. They would clack their mandibles at times, just like the PCs talk at times. The concept that group A moving into the territory of group B and because of that, group B is automatically hiding seems a bit weird. I can definitely see a DM saying both sides roll perception against the other side and if you beat their "passive stealth" (a concept that just is easier than passive perception against rolled stealth since neither side is really trying to stealth), then you get to go in the surprise round. That way, some PCs from group A might go on the surprise round and some ankhegs from group B might go on the surprise round. This just seems to harken back to old style "the monsters always get surprise" scenarios that never made sense. It seems like a way to force feed the players a lesson in some cases. Note: I am not saying that the OP played this wrong, I'm asking how DMs handle this type of situation, especially if group B is not explicitly trying to hide. Note: There are cases of predators actually hiding like lions hiding in brush, waiting for prey to come along. And if that is the case with the ankhegs, fine. But, it just seems in my experience that DMs have monsters do this "predators hiding to surprise prey" happening almost all of the time, basically 24 hours a day which I kind of find weird. Why aren't the ankhegs doing the monster equivalent of snoozing in the shade some times? Why are they always alert and hiding? Why do the PCs never just stumble across snoozing monsters and the PCs get surprise (which is why I do a perception roll vs. "passive stealth" instead of the other way around, it allows for all 5 scenarios based on dice rolls, one side totally surprised, one side partially surprised, some from both sides surprised, the second side partially surprised, the second side totally surprised)? Now if the one side is hiding, all bets are off. It's just normal passive perception vs. rolled stealth. But why are the monsters the ones almost always getting the stealth rolls (or hiding) and the PCs the ones almost always getting passive perception? The monsters are always alert? The monsters are always hiding? The monsters are not just standing in a field at times, rooting around in the dirt looking for grubs or rodents? The PHB mentions that if neither side is actually hiding, then neither side is surprised (which I find a bit problematic as well in some cases). I'm not sure why DMs feel the need to teach their players lessons like this. [/QUOTE]
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