Yellow Sign
Explorer
Just saw Gamma World Players Handbook at a local bookstore and I got a chance to just thumb through it. While I didn't get a chance to really look at it in depth, I did get one impression. It's a darn UGLY book.
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Gamma World - Disappointment
- Thread starter Gallo22
- Start date
Darrin Drader
Explorer
Yellow Sign said:
Its Gamma World. Its supposed to be ugly.
redkobold
Explorer
I have yet to read through it, just three skims through the book. I like what I see. I only wish there was more illustrations, especially of critters and mutations. I am going to copy some illustrations out of my old GW books and paste them into this one. Also, even in my skiming through I noticed a few silly editing errors like spelling, etc.
I am really happy about the town rules and if anything is missing in the mutations I am sure I can get it from Darwins World (another excellent product) and Omega World (which was excellent also). Either way, the players books seems to be a good base core book. I am eagerly awaiting the follow-ups.
As far as sci-fi versus science-fantasy, that all comes from how the Game Master runs the campaign and the feel of the world. I am really happy to have all of this new stuff in a hardbound book. D20 is so modular that you can custom build a great setting with anything in it that you want.
Bruce did a wonderful job. I wrote an article a few months back for the EN World Players journal and am writing a new one for submittal soon and it is a lot of work to write and edit and pull things together even for a short article. Pulling together and writing for multiple books must be a herculean task.
I am really happy about the town rules and if anything is missing in the mutations I am sure I can get it from Darwins World (another excellent product) and Omega World (which was excellent also). Either way, the players books seems to be a good base core book. I am eagerly awaiting the follow-ups.
As far as sci-fi versus science-fantasy, that all comes from how the Game Master runs the campaign and the feel of the world. I am really happy to have all of this new stuff in a hardbound book. D20 is so modular that you can custom build a great setting with anything in it that you want.
Bruce did a wonderful job. I wrote an article a few months back for the EN World Players journal and am writing a new one for submittal soon and it is a lot of work to write and edit and pull things together even for a short article. Pulling together and writing for multiple books must be a herculean task.
Melkor
Explorer
lyonstudio said:
Hey Kevin, could you speak to that topic for a minute. I don't have Darwin's World, but know that the 2nd Edition is D20 Modern compatible - How well would it, Omega World, and the new D20 Gamma World work in conjunction (in other words, how much modification would be needed to drop in a Mutant Animal character from Omega World next to a Scav character from Darwin's World, next to a character using Nano technology from D20 GW ? Are the systems so "different" that they would cause radical shifts in play balance if used together ?
Thanks.
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Darrin Drader
Explorer
I have all 3. The only thing I can say is that the mutations from Omega world are a little over the top, but the ones in GW and DW are pretty well balanced. In fact, if you need supplemental material for GW, DW should work pretty well. The opposite is true as well.
Melkor
Explorer
Baraendur said:
What about Darwin's World as a self contained RPG ?
How close is it to the original Gamma World ?
Can you create Mutant Animal Characters in that game (For some reason, I
think I remember reading a review where mutations were a template that
could be added to any creature - but that doesn't exactly allow you to play a
mutant animal character - I can't find the review now) ?
Greyscott
First Post
After purchasing the new GW and skimming it, I went down to my "laboratory" to dig out my copy of Polyhedron/Omega World; and just a glance through that seems to suggest you could use the Omega World mutations pretty easily with GW - at least until some more specific GW material hits the streets.
However, I do have a question about mutated animals or the moreaus, I guess, as they are being called in D20 Modern and GW. Are there any other moreau templates available beyond those listed in D20 Modern and the single "orca" template in the Polyhedron "Genetech" issue? Even more so than the mutations, the list seems a might short (unless there's a ton listed in the sections of GW I haven't read yet
)
Nevertheless, GW looks great so far, and I am eager to get the follow-on books and get a campaign rolling...
Greyscott
However, I do have a question about mutated animals or the moreaus, I guess, as they are being called in D20 Modern and GW. Are there any other moreau templates available beyond those listed in D20 Modern and the single "orca" template in the Polyhedron "Genetech" issue? Even more so than the mutations, the list seems a might short (unless there's a ton listed in the sections of GW I haven't read yet
)Nevertheless, GW looks great so far, and I am eager to get the follow-on books and get a campaign rolling...
Greyscott
PosterBoy
First Post
I posted to your other tread, so some of this is redundant here.
Not sure what you mean here?
I know alot of people compare the two, and I want GW players to look to DW for addtiional material, but
I know a lot of people compare the two (for good reason), and I want GW players to look to DW for additional material, but as I said in the other post, I have never owned GW. It was never my intention to make DW an unofficial version of GW. Dominic Covery who created the DW setting I think has played GW, but I don’t know for sure.
So I can’t compare DW to GW with accuracy. If someone asked me to describe DW in other game terms, I would say it has a Fallout tone and style with the mutant elements found in GW.
However, 2nd edition really is designed as a toolkit to make any PA game, with the Twisted Earth as the main setting. We tried hard to separate mechanics from the specific setting.
The answer to your other question about mutant animals is in the other thread.
Melkor said:
Not sure what you mean here?
Melkor said:
I know alot of people compare the two, and I want GW players to look to DW for addtiional material, but
Melkor said:
I know a lot of people compare the two (for good reason), and I want GW players to look to DW for additional material, but as I said in the other post, I have never owned GW. It was never my intention to make DW an unofficial version of GW. Dominic Covery who created the DW setting I think has played GW, but I don’t know for sure.
So I can’t compare DW to GW with accuracy. If someone asked me to describe DW in other game terms, I would say it has a Fallout tone and style with the mutant elements found in GW.
However, 2nd edition really is designed as a toolkit to make any PA game, with the Twisted Earth as the main setting. We tried hard to separate mechanics from the specific setting.
The answer to your other question about mutant animals is in the other thread.
gamma dissapointment
I must say so far I'm dissapointed. I'd do a list of pros, but I'm really having a hard time finding any, so all I can list are cons.
cons
1. The book is ugly. I mean really ugly. The cover is hideous, the interior graphic design is poor and the art is a mixed bag. Out of all the art there are few, very, very few, cool images.
2. The intro makes no sense, and is devoid of inspiration.
3. The whole tone of the game is changed from sci-fantasy to sci-fi. Gamma World is not supposed to be a treatise on what may plausibly happen in the future. Gamma World is Thundarr the Barbarian, not Speilberg's AI. AI wasn't a good movie, and it ain't very good as an RPG.
4. WAY too many characters have knowledge from the past, and it takes place way too soon after the "final wars". Gamma World is a place where the ancient technology is ... um ... ancient. It's mysterious, it might as well be magic. Nobody knows how to use this stuff, or what these ancient ruins are, or what happened to the world. It is all unknown and for the players (and even the GM) to find out.
5. The authors should have been reading more Andre Norton and less Phillip K. Dick for inspiration. Yes, Phillip is a genious, we all love and admire him. But his work is NOT Gamma World!
6. This is a skimpy book.
7. Okay, I'm going to stop my bashing here. I've got a lot more to say, but I've already seen others have addressed many of those greivences.
I had a really hard time posting this. I love Bruce Baughs work in general. I've been a fan of Gamma World since 1st edition, and have ALL the editions. I had my expectations way too high. I haven't been this dissapointed since Episode 1.
I must say so far I'm dissapointed. I'd do a list of pros, but I'm really having a hard time finding any, so all I can list are cons.
cons
1. The book is ugly. I mean really ugly. The cover is hideous, the interior graphic design is poor and the art is a mixed bag. Out of all the art there are few, very, very few, cool images.
2. The intro makes no sense, and is devoid of inspiration.
3. The whole tone of the game is changed from sci-fantasy to sci-fi. Gamma World is not supposed to be a treatise on what may plausibly happen in the future. Gamma World is Thundarr the Barbarian, not Speilberg's AI. AI wasn't a good movie, and it ain't very good as an RPG.
4. WAY too many characters have knowledge from the past, and it takes place way too soon after the "final wars". Gamma World is a place where the ancient technology is ... um ... ancient. It's mysterious, it might as well be magic. Nobody knows how to use this stuff, or what these ancient ruins are, or what happened to the world. It is all unknown and for the players (and even the GM) to find out.
5. The authors should have been reading more Andre Norton and less Phillip K. Dick for inspiration. Yes, Phillip is a genious, we all love and admire him. But his work is NOT Gamma World!
6. This is a skimpy book.
7. Okay, I'm going to stop my bashing here. I've got a lot more to say, but I've already seen others have addressed many of those greivences.
I had a really hard time posting this. I love Bruce Baughs work in general. I've been a fan of Gamma World since 1st edition, and have ALL the editions. I had my expectations way too high. I haven't been this dissapointed since Episode 1.
Darrin Drader
Explorer
I have to say that I disagree with just about every point you make here.
I think of all your points, I disagree with this one the most. I love the industrial-gone wrong look. Broken chain link is cool, and the art is actually better than that found in most SSS products. Compare this to the art in the Scarred Lands and I think you'll have to agree with me. Why don't you also compare this to GW 4th edition, which was page after page after page after page of unbroken text with virtually no art to speak of?
The tone of the game is changed slightly in that is is less silly than previous editions, but I don't consider that a bad thing at all. In fact, it was one of the reasons I was so hyped about this book. It isn't what its predacessors were. It's an intelligent and mature game with grit that takes place after a series of devastating wars.
One of the things I always hated about the previous editions was that they took place too long after the final wars. If you wait too long, the radiation will become less and less a problem. Civilization will have less technology and the knowledge to build more will be gone. That's not the PA universe I want to play in. I want to play in a world where the tech exists, but is either lost and must be found, or is in the hands of a very few individuals who have no intention of sharing it with anyone except those who can pay top dollar or trade items of equal value. Making technology the same as magic, in my opinion, is just irritating. I'm much more interested in a Mad Max world than a Thundarr world.
The book weighs in at 246 pages. By comparison the 3.5 Player's Handbook is 319 pages, but of that 136 pages are devoted to spells - which have no place in Gamma World. Aside from that, the chapter on combat is unnecessary since D20 Modern has all the mechanics you need for combat. Additional weapons and vehicles can also be pulled straight from D20 Modern. With D20 Modern, this is a strong system. If you're just using this with the D&D 3.5 rules, its going to be weaker because you're missing so much of the core rules built into D20 Gamma World.
That's because you want this to be a faithful re-release of the old material using D20 rules. While you have a right to feel that way, that isn't what most people who are interested in PA games want, and Bruce Baugh and Co. are definitely in touch with this fact. This is a re-imagining. They've never pretended it to be anything but that. They modernized Gamma World and made something that is dark, gritty, violent, realistic, and is a worthy successor to the cheesy incarnations this game went through under TSR. I would go on to say that it is the definitive PA game on the market right now, but the fact is that Darwin's World really does rank right up there with it and the two compliment one another very well. If what you want is one of the previous editions of Gamma World with updated rules to make it D20 then pull out the old books and use them, substituting the D20 rules from this book. The new rules work just fine with them. You don't even need the setting material from this book to make use of the rest of it.
The only disappointment I have with this book is that there aren't more mutations and that there aren't animal races. That's it. Otherwise it does exactly what it should do.
tldenmark said:
I think of all your points, I disagree with this one the most. I love the industrial-gone wrong look. Broken chain link is cool, and the art is actually better than that found in most SSS products. Compare this to the art in the Scarred Lands and I think you'll have to agree with me. Why don't you also compare this to GW 4th edition, which was page after page after page after page of unbroken text with virtually no art to speak of?
The tone of the game is changed slightly in that is is less silly than previous editions, but I don't consider that a bad thing at all. In fact, it was one of the reasons I was so hyped about this book. It isn't what its predacessors were. It's an intelligent and mature game with grit that takes place after a series of devastating wars.
One of the things I always hated about the previous editions was that they took place too long after the final wars. If you wait too long, the radiation will become less and less a problem. Civilization will have less technology and the knowledge to build more will be gone. That's not the PA universe I want to play in. I want to play in a world where the tech exists, but is either lost and must be found, or is in the hands of a very few individuals who have no intention of sharing it with anyone except those who can pay top dollar or trade items of equal value. Making technology the same as magic, in my opinion, is just irritating. I'm much more interested in a Mad Max world than a Thundarr world.
The book weighs in at 246 pages. By comparison the 3.5 Player's Handbook is 319 pages, but of that 136 pages are devoted to spells - which have no place in Gamma World. Aside from that, the chapter on combat is unnecessary since D20 Modern has all the mechanics you need for combat. Additional weapons and vehicles can also be pulled straight from D20 Modern. With D20 Modern, this is a strong system. If you're just using this with the D&D 3.5 rules, its going to be weaker because you're missing so much of the core rules built into D20 Gamma World.
That's because you want this to be a faithful re-release of the old material using D20 rules. While you have a right to feel that way, that isn't what most people who are interested in PA games want, and Bruce Baugh and Co. are definitely in touch with this fact. This is a re-imagining. They've never pretended it to be anything but that. They modernized Gamma World and made something that is dark, gritty, violent, realistic, and is a worthy successor to the cheesy incarnations this game went through under TSR. I would go on to say that it is the definitive PA game on the market right now, but the fact is that Darwin's World really does rank right up there with it and the two compliment one another very well. If what you want is one of the previous editions of Gamma World with updated rules to make it D20 then pull out the old books and use them, substituting the D20 rules from this book. The new rules work just fine with them. You don't even need the setting material from this book to make use of the rest of it.
The only disappointment I have with this book is that there aren't more mutations and that there aren't animal races. That's it. Otherwise it does exactly what it should do.
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