Gamma World - Disappointment

[Will]

The intro makes no sense and is devoid of inspiration??

If there ever was a single sentence guaranteed to make me write off somebody... wow.

I also disagree with the other points, but at least they were somewhat more a matter of taste.

 

[Darrin Drader]

The intro makes no sense and is devoid of inspiration??

If there ever was a single sentence guaranteed to make me write off somebody... wow.

I also disagree with the other points, but at least they were somewhat more a matter of taste.

You'll notice that my rebuttal only addressed issues that could potentially be construed as valid. Personally I think this was little more than a troll.

 

[thomden]

I have to say that I disagree with just about every point you make here.

ditto. As they say, "one man's junk..."

I think of all your points, I disagree with this one the most. I love the industrial-gone wrong look.

I love the idea of industrial-gone-wrong. Not graphic art-gone-wrong. Huge difference. There's plenty of post apocalyptic ruins that have a stark beauty to them. Interestingly one of the web resources noted in the GWPH is of a post-apocalyptic photography site. There is some amazing stuff there. (http://www.oboylephoto.com/ruins/index.htm)

You may say this is just an argument of aesthetics, but you're going to see the majority of people are going to concur this is an ugly book. I'm somewhat qualified to make this point.

The tone of the game is changed slightly in that is is less silly than previous editions, but I don't consider that a bad thing at all....I'm much more interested in a Mad Max world than a Thundarr world.

That's because you want this to be a faithful re-release of the old material using D20 rules. While you have a right to feel that way, that isn't what most people who are interested in PA games want, and Bruce Baugh and Co. are definitely in touch with this fact. This is a re-imagining.

I don't see what's wrong with expecting a faithful re-release. I wouldn't expect someone to "re-imagine" Star Wars, and put out a Star Wars RPG that was actually more like Babylon 5, or Alien or something just because someone in marketing thought that would be more popular.

Also you are assuming I wanted an exact replica of GW converted to d20, which is far from the truth. I expected an intelligent remake of GW that kept the feel of the license, key to that feel is sci-fantasy. I'd argue that this is so different it is no longer Gamma World other than some of the names. If they wanted to do A.I. the RPG they should have made that, but not call it Gamma World.

The book weighs in at 246 pages. ...

The only disappointment I have with this book is that there aren't more mutations and that there aren't animal races. That's it. Otherwise it does exactly what it should do.

hmmm. I think you made my point about the "skimpy-ness" of the book. I wasn't referring to page count. The key things a player looks for are empowerment tools. All those nifty things that lets them make the character they want within the context of the game. That is sorely missing in this book, and it's supposed to be the player's handbook!

 

[thomden]

not trolling

You'll notice that my rebuttal only addressed issues that could potentially be construed as valid. Personally I think this was little more than a troll.

No, I'm sorry. It wasn't meant as a troll. I did not like anything about the intro and did not think it was very well written. And it did not strike me as an "inspired" peice of literature, in the sense that the ideas were not compelling (to me) and the way it was written did not engage me.

Obviously any post is simply an expression of an opinion. And as I work professionally illustrating games it doesn't serve my career to "troll" in the place that pays my rent.

In fact, I'm going out on a limb expressing these opinions. As there are people I work for who may not appreciate my speaking negatively of a product. But, I'm sorely dissapointed in this product and it's a game that was one of my first role-playing experiences growing up. As I noted, I had my expecations too high. Considering Bruce Baugh's other outstanding work, and the general quality of S&S stuff I was expecting a LOT better.

They're entitled to screw up occassionally, not every piece can be a masterpiece. But I wish this product had been one.

 

[d4]

I wouldn't expect someone to "re-imagine" Star Wars, and put out a Star Wars RPG that was actually more like Babylon 5, or Alien or something just because someone in marketing thought that would be more popular.

you obviously haven't seen New Jedi Order...

 

[thomden]

sheesh

you obviously haven't seen New Jedi Order...

ha! I haven't followed the Star Wars RPG. Episode 1 took the wind out of my Star wars sails!

Though I thought Jedi Knight III, and the new Jedi Academy were great. And I'm looking forward to playing Knights of the Old Republic.

There have been 6 editions of Gamma World now. Everytime the development team thinks they have to re-imagine the setting to "fix" it. The problem has never been the setting, it was always just in need of a good SYSTEM. Sheesh.

2nd edition is still my favorite. I think the editions go downhill from there. This S&S version is better than the Alternity version though, I'll give it that.

 

[Darrin Drader]

I don't see what's wrong with expecting a faithful re-release. I wouldn't expect someone to "re-imagine" Star Wars, and put out a Star Wars RPG that was actually more like Babylon 5, or Alien or something just because someone in marketing thought that would be more popular.

Also you are assuming I wanted an exact replica of GW converted to d20, which is far from the truth. I expected an intelligent remake of GW that kept the feel of the license, key to that feel is sci-fantasy. I'd argue that this is so different it is no longer Gamma World other than some of the names. If they wanted to do A.I. the RPG they should have made that, but not call it Gamma World.

As you point out, every incarnation of Gamma World has been drastically different. As such, it is practically impossible to nail down any particular one as being core. How can you stay true to a core that doesn't exist? If you're worried about there being too much emphasis on nanotech and not enough on radiation, then change it or deemphasize it. I don't see how this is such a big deal though, because the end result is still Gamma World, not AI.

The book I read says that AI still exists in pockets here and there and with the synthetics, but the final wars destroyed most of the things that once existed. A world like the one in AI may have been the starting point before the wars, but it is certainly not the ending point. If all you want is more radiation, according to the book, large portions of the world were in fact nuked. All this simply leads to a setting that has more potential for adventure, not less. Also, like the book says, you can choose to set this later than the timeline they establish, thus reducing the amount of knowledge of the old world that remains.

hmmm. I think you made my point about the "skimpy-ness" of the book. I wasn't referring to page count. The key things a player looks for are empowerment tools. All those nifty things that lets them make the character they want within the context of the game. That is sorely missing in this book, and it's supposed to be the player's handbook!

Why in the world would I want yet another book redefining the core rules of the game? Why would we want to consume all those pages just to give us the system that we already have? Sure, its not self contained. I have no problem with that since my bookshelves only hold so many books. I'm bothered by redundancy. This book is an add-on for D20 Modern and it works quite well in that capacity. If you don't want to use D20 Modern you're going to lose out on a lot of worthwhile options. Reinventing the wheel does not make it roll any better.

 

[Holy Bovine]

I purchased the D20 Modern rules awhile back in preparation of the GW D20. I never realized the dumb weath system they created. Very boring and unimaginative! What ever happened to roleplaying??

I find it hard to believe that a different wealth system hurts roleplaying. Personally the wealth system in d20 Modern is the best thing about the game (and I do like many other parts). I am contemplating using it for most of my other games too but it would take some work to convert. I'm not really a Gamma World fan so I can't comment on your other points but felt the wealth system (at least from d20 Modern) was worth defending.

 

[Teflon Billy]

...but as I said in the other post, I have never owned GW. It was never my intention to make DW an unofficial version of GW. Dominic Covery who created the DW setting I think has played GW, but I don’t know for sure.

I'm pretty sure he owned it Chris

There are a lot of similarities between old Gamma World and the Darwin's World core book, and to my mind this is all good.

I'll say now what I said about Darwin's World when I first got it: it's D20 Gamma World done damn near perfectly.

I've only skimmed the new D20 Gamma World, but even from that skimming I thought it looked a little light on Mutations, and if as previous posters have said it's all "+1 to STR", "+2 to spot check" and suchlike, I don't think that's good at all. It actually sounds a little lazy.

So I can’t compare DW to GW with accuracy. If someone asked me to describe DW in other game terms, I would say it has a Fallout tone and style with the mutant elements found in GW.

I'd say they are really close cousins.

However, 2nd edition really is designed as a toolkit to make any PA game, with the Twisted Earth as the main setting. We tried hard to separate mechanics from the specific setting.

!!! I haven't seen 2E! Damn! I gotta get on that.

 

[Teflon Billy]

...Compare this to the art in the Scarred Lands and I think you'll have to agree with me...

Now this is just straight-up crazy talk Darren

Scarred Lands boasts the work of William O'Connor, who is like unto a God (Albeit a God of RPG art, so his power base is somewhat nebulous)