Gandalf - Patient Zero of Bad DMPC Epidemic?

[Cabled]

PCs are generally about the same level and about the same power level. If Gandalf is a PC, something screwy is still going on.

This is only true in the more recent incarnations of D&D...back in basic/early advanced it was actually assumed people would be all over the level range due to death, being out of contact, etc. While that arrangement was scrapped by a good many players over time in the name of balance, it was an early assumption...much like Tolkien is an early work inspiring. in some ways, our great game.

 

[RangerWickett]

I don't know what movie you guys are talking about, but in the one I saw, Gandalf was a filthy liar.

Even then, sure, maybe was telling the truth. So Gandalf uses featherfall to survive the massive fall, and then he picks off a horribly wounded (20d6!) balrog with a few well placed blasts from his wand of magic missiles (kept in a wand sheath in the quarterstaff).

Maybe he was 7th level.

 

[jdrakeh]

Gandalf, by D&D standards, isn't all that powerful. In LotR, he's only powerful because magic is extremely rare (much moreso than in any incarnation of D&D). Change that paradigm and you change the base character power level, markedly so. That said, yes, he seems to have served as a model for crappy NPCs like Elminster and such.

As somebody else noted, what works in novels doesn't work in games. In LotR where nobody is playing the other characters, Gandalf's power level is perfectly acceptable. In games, having somebody like Gandalf with the Uber cranked up to 11 (e.g., Elminster) swing in and save your butt during every encounter is full tilt fail.

 

[amethal]

Isn't Gandalf some kind of celestial? I'm pretty sure his race gives him a level adjustment.

Anyway, Lord of the Rings is responsible for a lot more than DMPCs.

Its obsession with marching order, food supplies, rope and the like turns heroic fantasy into a boring exercise in logistics.

Plus, DMs think its okay to have the eagles turn up and save the day whenever the PCs are in trouble.

 

[S'mon]

Has no one read The Silmarilliion? The original DMPC in Tolkein is Beren; the original DM's wife / girlfriend is Luthien. The latter was even engraved on Mrs Tolkein's tombstone!

They're buried together in a double grave. I took a bus up to north Oxford one day and looked at it. On the headstone it says "Beren" for Tolkien and "Luthien" for Mrs Tolkien.

My American wife looked at the small stones placed on the grave and thought those were some kind of Jewish words.

 

[S'mon]

In games, having somebody like Gandalf with the Uber cranked up to 11 (e.g., Elminster) swing in and save your butt during every encounter is full tilt fail.

And Ed Greenwood apparently did exactly that (and boasted about it) in his own original Shadowdale campaign. Those poor players.

 

[pawsplay]

Gandalf is plenty powerful, it's just that in LOTR, a wizard is not a tacnuke. Also, in Tolkien's view, a wizard's power does not come from "tricks" but from wisdom and closeness to Eo (God). It's more like he has about 30 ranks in Knowledge (What's Really Going On).

We do see him do some nice spells, though, including searing light and break enchantment.

 

[mmadsen]

Its obsession with marching order, food supplies, rope and the like turns heroic fantasy into a boring exercise in logistics.

Most real-life adventurers are concerned with "petty" things like food, shelter, and equipment. I'd hardly say Tolkien was obsessed with such things, compared to real-life adventurers recounting their tales.

 

[Andor]

Most real-life adventurers are concerned with "petty" things like food, shelter, and equipment. I'd hardly say Tolkien was obsessed with such things, compared to real-life adventurers recounting their tales.

True that. I'm always amused/appalled to meet some D&D player who thinks he has a good grasp of medieval warfare while being unsure how to spell 'logistics'.

 

[Man in the Funny Hat]

Deus ex machina, no doubt, but nothing suggests that he is a DMPC while all the other characters are PC's. Define first the rules by which it is determined how one character is a DMPC while another character - written/run by the same author - is a PC.