Gandalf - Patient Zero of Bad DMPC Epidemic?

[SPoD]

I think most people here is pretty aware that Lord of the Rings is a fantasy novel, and obviously has little to do with a D&D game. It's kinda fun talking about the books as if they did, though. Of course, one could also interpret Lord of the Rings as a typical Ars Magica game. There, it is not so unusual for the Wizard to possess more power than the rest of the party combined!

Actually, I'm going to say that I think the OP is really on to something here. Let me paint a picture:

It's 1979 in Middle America, and Ted the DM is planning his first AD&D campaign with the brand new core rulebooks. Having played OD&D with his group as essentially a glorified wargame, he's decided he really wants to explore the idea of a story with the new Advanced rules. So he sits down and begins plotting out the story he wants the PCs to follow.

Fairly early on, however, he finds he needs a way to get backstory information into the hands of the PCs. Being a die-hard Tolkien fan, he thinks to himself, "How does Tolkien do it?" Well, by having Gandalf say things. So Ted creates Randolph the Wizard. And because Randolph needs to be wise and powerful to know what he knows, Ted looks at the rules and makes him the highest level in the game.

And then, as he's reading all the cool spells that Randolph can cast, he thinks, "Oh, man, this would be so cool. Well, my PCs are only 1st level, they won't be able to cast Prismatic Sphere for years...I'll just set up a fight where Randolph can use all his cool spells like that." And if, for a moment, he wonders whether or not that is really fair to the PCs, his doubts are immediately quelled by remembering that Gandalf fought the Balrog without assistance from the hobbits. Since Tolkien is the best fantasy writer EVER to Ted, he concludes that such as scene is good drama. He schedules in a fight against a blue dragon for the first adventure.

When the first adventure happens, Ted finds he enjoys playing Randolph as a stereotypical wizard (i.e. exactly like Gandalf) and decides to have him stay with the party. After all, the other players get a character to roleplay, why shouldn't he? And soon enough, we're in classic DMPC territory. Further, because this is early in the game's history, his friends don't think there's anything wrong with it at first. The behavior spreads, mutates, and for many years, we suffer through DMs who think they can put their pet NPCs ahead of the party, because it's "good for the story."

So, is Tolkien to blame? Not at all. Gandalf works fine in the story. But is Gandalf the inspiration for all the Randolph/Elminster wizards who overshadow PCs? Hell, yes. And although he had no way of knowing it (or reason to care), Tolkien's text specifically encourages them to do so.

Therefore, to answer the thread question, Gandalf is like the guy who gets on the plane from some small third world country carrying the obscure disease. He didn't actually do anything wrong, because there was no epidemic when he did it. He had no way of knowing. But he is the cause of the epidemic nonetheless.

 

[Numion]

...snip...

So, is Tolkien to blame? Not at all. Gandalf works fine in the story. But is Gandalf the inspiration for all the Randolph/Elminster wizards who overshadow PCs? Hell, yes. And although he had no way of knowing it (or reason to care), Tolkien's text specifically encourages them to do so.

Therefore, to answer the thread question, Gandalf is like the guy who gets on the plane from some small third world country carrying the obscure disease. He didn't actually do anything wrong, because there was no epidemic when he did it. He had no way of knowing. But he is the cause of the epidemic nonetheless.

Amen! Nice analysis, and exactly to the point!

 

[Quartz]

Actually, um, Gandalf is a Sorcerer 6,

You know, in 3E, I'd put him as a 10th level (or so) bard. It fits better with Tolkein's work. Break Enchntment on Theoden, Fascinate on the Nazgul, spell duel being a battle of magic words, and so on.

And who's to say that the balrog was actually a D&D3 balor? It could have been a fiendish fire elemental.

 

[Darklone]

Wasn't gandalf a half-celestial sorcerer8 last time we talked about it? Whatever.

Does someone have the stats for the Rings of Powah!?!?

 

[Psion]

I thought Tom Bombadil was the token DM author mouthpiece and deus ex machina.

 

[AllisterH]

SPoD said it better than anyone.

I agree with the OP that Gandalf is what inspired the hated "wizard DMPC" but I think the real problem was that nowadays, many of us here know what works in a book doesn't work in a RPG.

However, when we first started gaming? I betcha almost all of us on this board (the longer you've been gaming, the higher the likelihood) used LoTR as influence on how to construct a campaign.

 

[happyelf]

No, because he's a character in a book, not a game. The two are very different, and what works well in one, is a disaster in the other.

Plenty of books have horrid, self-insertion characters who the author treats as an extension of their ego. I'm not saying gandalf is one, but such characters suck in books much as they suck in games.

 

[haakon1]

Um, Gandalf is totally a PC.

I agree. I also agree that Gandalf is higher level than the rest of the party, and a member of a race with an ECL.

I think this is OK and interesting. In 1st Edition, mixing levels was not much of a problem. 7th level and 11th level in the same party was 0 problem for us. In 4e, we shall see.

In 3e, it's probably more of an issue, because the level power graph seems steeper, but I currently am running a big party that runs from 5th level to 7th level (based on when players joined up and the top PC's doing some special stuff), and the power differences are noticeable, but not overwhelming.

 

[haakon1]

We do see him do some nice spells, though, including searing light and break enchantment.

Don't forget the Prestidigitation with the smoke rings shaped like ships and so on.

 

[Rykion]

Hi,

I'm reading Lord of the Rings once again, and cannot help but think that Big G is the archetype for all the bad DMPCs most of us have suffered through. All the respect to Tolkien for reinforcing the adventuring group cliche, which is quite useful for the logistics of RPGing. I just feel that many of the DMPCs I've suffered through bear resemblance to Gandalf. Here are the hallmarks of a bad DMPC:

* Much more powerful than the rest of the group

This much is obvious. Kicks a Balrogs ass while the 'PCs' run for their lives.

Very common of PCs in some RPGs. Rifts being a prime example. Gandalf expected to die fighting the Balrog and was willing to sacrifice himself for the mission. Of course he did die fighting the Balrog, who was of the same race as Gandalf, so I don't think that really qualifies as an ass kicking.

* Steals the PCs thunder

He's always engaging the ,pst powerful enemies in combat, and also dominates NPC interactions.

Very common of some PCs in all RPGs. He was the party leader. Eowyn and Merry took out one of the most powerful enemies physically beaten. Sam and Frodo accomplished the actual mission.

* First dibs on the best loot

He's quick to scoop up Glamdring, Sarumans Palantir, Shadowfax while he already has one of the rings of Power!

You can find powergamers in practically every party. There were at least 2 other magical weapons from the loot that Glamdring came from. A scrying tool like a Palantir clearly belongs to a wizard. He was adventuring solo when he picked up Shadowfax.

* Knows all the info but doesn't share it

He obviously knows a lot about the adventures plot (like any DMPC would, they're controlled by the DM!), but keeps all the info to himself, only giving small handouts to the 'PCs'.

Several of the PCs knew quite a bit. Aragorn and Legolas definitely had a lot more knowledge than most the group. The hobbits' players eyes probably glazed over during the DM's plot exposition, and he didn't feel like repeating himself.

* Is rude to the PCs

This is usually the most annoying feature of a DMPC. "Fool of a Took!" With their high level of power they can treat PCs like crap. Gandalf limits himself to verbal abuse, but that would be pretty annoying in a game.

Being rude is hardly out of character for a PC. Pippin's player obviously ignored the DM's warnings too much, and Gandalf's player just wasn't having any of it.

* Holds back his power

While powerful, Gandalf doesn't use his powers often. Another feature of bad DMPCs - they let the PCs sweat enough, even thouugh they could save them from a lot of bleeding.

Gandalf wasn't always flashy, but he didn't let his fellow PCs suffer when he could help.

What do you think? Is Gandalf the stereotypical bad DMPC, an annoyance to boot?

No he is clearly a PC in a game with characters with varying power levels. Gandalf's player was a bit of a powergamer and drama queen. You brought up him coming back from the dead in a later post. That is hardly unheard of for a PC in D&D.