Gate, Shapechange and Disjuction

[styker]

I will start a campaign this week and i was thinking about these spells... The spell are overpowered... for example, with a shapechange a wizard 20/archmage 1 can turn into a solar(CR 23, 22 HD; the wizard uses a tatoo +1 spellcaster, spellpower +1 from Archmage, +1 from ioun stone to a total caster level of 24). With a gate a wizard can summon a creature with TWICE hit dice than him... we found a lot of powerful creatures in this category... and disjuction... goobye magic items...

Somebody use a house rule to these spells? Which one? I was thinking about uses the CR of a creature to set the limit of shapechange and gate... like your HD or less to summon or change in a creature( HD to not let wizards with +3 caster levels summon stronger creatures).

 

[Arkhandus]

Shapechange should probably not grant the non-natural abilities of the creature assumed, or should instead only allow the assumption of one form per casting. Since it doesn't grant feats, Shapechange won't make the caster as great a warrior as the party's Fighter in every way (instead only in one or two ways, like Strength/AC, but the mage'll still have pathetic HP and such), generally speaking, especially since Shapechange can be Dispelled, or suppressed by Antimagic Field. You may want to shorten its duration as well so the caster can't outdo the resident Fighter for too long.

Gate, I'm not quite certain what to do with. The saving throws or Spell Resistance of high-HD/high-CR creatures will tend to make Gate fail in summoning or controlling them sometimes, anyway.

 

[moritheil]

IF you are playing non-cinematic, and you feel comfortable running political scenarios, then one way to control or limit gate is to run repercussions for it.

As written, you are correct in pointing out that gate does not really have that many limitations on it.

 

[Thanee]

I house rule Gate to only work up to the caster level, not twice as much. That is totally ridiculous, even with the 1,000 XP cost.

Bye
Thanee

 

[styker]

And what about the shapechange... a wizard 21 turn into a solar and can use spells like a 20 CLERIC!!!!!!

 

[Ovinomancer]

And what about the shapechange... a wizard 21 turn into a solar and can use spells like a 20 CLERIC!!!!!!

Umm...no.

Shapechange
Transmutation
Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level (D)
This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.
You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities. You also gain the type of the new form in place of your own. The new form does not disorient you. Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.
You can become just about anything you are familiar with. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.
Focus: A jade circlet worth no less than 1,500 gp, which you must place on your head when casting the spell. (The focus melds into your new form when you change shape.)

The spell casting and Spell-Like Abilities of the solar are not granted as they are not Ex or SU abilities.

As noted before, you don't gain the feats of the new creature, but you also do not gain the BAB of the creature either. So it's still a very powerful spell (breath weapons fo dragons, incorporeal ghost stuff, etc) but it ain't that good.

The best ruling for Mord's Disjunction I've seen it Piratecat's: he changed the casting time to 1 full round. Try spending a full round casting this spell while everyone with decent ranks in spellcraft is shouting to kill you now.

 

[noeuphoria]

You don't get any spells or spell-like abilities when you shapechange. That being said, there's still plenty of reason to be a solar, what with their energy immunities, dr 15/epic, and regeneration 15.

 

[styker]

thank you, i wasn seeing this in the spell... i was completely wrong. So, itś a powerfull spell but not to much...

 

[Dragon Mage]

Of all of these the only one that I have ever had a problem with was Disjuction. This spell can ruin and entire campaign, not to mention bringing an evening of gaming to a screatching hault while you roll for every magic item in the massive area. It can destroy hard earned magic items and take down every buff the party may have cast. From a DM's stand point it will allow me get a TPK every time I cast it.

I have run several Epic games, the only way to do this was to remove Disjuction from the game. If you try to recreate this spell using Epic spellcasting rules the DC and cost would be huge, so how can it be considered a non-epic spell. I have replaced it with Supieror Dispel Magic that add the caster level up to 30 and I find this house rule works to perfection.

As for the other spells (shape change and Gate) a simple dispel or banishment solves any problems.

 

[styker]

If you put disjuction just do automatic dispell all magics and supress the powers of the itens instead of destroy them i think it's works...

off:

What's is TPK?