Gate vs. Monster Summoning IX

[Otterscrubber]

Why would anyone choose MS9 over Gate? Hmmmm....let's see.....I could get a Nightmare (CR5) with MS9 or a Balor (CR18) with a Gate. Oh ya and the Balor will stick around till the fight is done even if it takes more than 1 round/level of the caster. And if I was good I could just summon a Solar (CR 19) to Resurrect my fallen comrades as a 20th level cleric or to fight for me instead of a Ghaele Eladrin (CR13).

Not to mention that the Gate spell can also be used as the perfect Planar travelling spell as it can be opened exactly where you want it to go. What am I missing? Is there a point to MS9?

 

[android]

Our group has been wondering this for some time. We can find no truly compelling reason to take sm9.

 

[SableWyvern]

Well, there's always a chance that a 20th level Wizard calling a Balor will get one advanced to 39 HD, and with 2 levels in Fighter, giving it 41HD and thus uncontrolled....

If called to fight, the duration is 1rd/level (longer duties require a bargain to be struck).

None of that really changes the original problems.

Possible House Rule solutions: change single creature HD limit for control to 150%.

Require a focus - a big, expensive gate frame.

Require all creatures over the caster's HD to be bargained with before they perform the required task.

Creatures over the casters HD get a Will save to refuse service.

 

[Noman]

They had to add MS9 to bump MS1 down to 1st Level - imagine how underpowered MS1 would be as a 2nd Level spell.

 

[Plane Sailing]

With MS9 there is no need to bargin, and the creature can't be permanently killed because it is "summoned", and when it dies, it can't go back home.

The creature that arrives via Gate is really there, can be permanently killed (which might make it more cautious!), has to be bargained with (?) and can use its own summon ability to summon more allies (which a creature which is summoned itself cannot normally do).

Personally I think Monster Summoning 9 isn't worth it. Especially if you compare it with the clerics Planar Ally spells (now THERE'S broken )

 

[Bonedagger]

When summoning monsters with Gate the problem is that if you get carried away you might end up getting

by

.

 

[gfunk]

IMC, we reasoned that beings that are Gated will strongly resent being forced to serve a puny mortal caster. This is doubly true for ultra-powerful beings like Balors and Solars ("the greatest of the celestials"). At a very minimum, they will come after you once the combat/duty is finished (e.g. via Plane Shift or what not).

Even if you were a good cleric and summoned a Solar, it would not be happy unless you had direct permission of your deity and did it for a very specific purpose. Otherwise you could expect an ultra-powerful Geas/Quest at a minimum.

 

[Macbrea]

Ah, to summons a balor! Here is the problem with doing this.

Ok, on the first day the Sorceror gates in a balor. The Balor (hd 34) is required to fight for the sorceror but isn't to happy about the whole matter in the first place. It disrupted his early morning meal.

Upon arriving back in Baator he decided to tell his Captian to stick around him that day. His captain is also a Balor (hd 26) and decided to sit about playing a game of bone chip poker with his boss. Later in the day, that same sorceror summons a Balor and the gate opens next to the lord again........ Both balors hearing the call decide to come to the realm and play around abit. After all, they have been invited. And now aren't subject fully to the control rules.


Monster summons IX summons a specific creature for a very short duration. You can never actually summons more then you can handle.


Just because a balor is a devil doesn't mean they are stupid. They will do dirt tricks if nessessary to gain power over their subjects. Their lawful alignment means they won't actually lie to you about what they are going to do. Their evil alignment however will make them work for the best of their interests.

 

[Ace32]

Originally posted by Macbrea:
Just because a balor is a devil doesn't mean they are stupid. They will do dirt tricks if nessessary to gain power over their subjects. Their lawful alignment means they won't actually lie to you about what they are going to do. Their evil alignment however will make them work for the best of their interests.

Cept they are chaotic evil demons

 

[Lela]

SM9 may just be there for domain purposes. I do think it's way underpowered, with Time Stop, Gate, and Wish hanging around.

It's also useful for those who need multible lower level monsters. Sometimes one highter level guy just isn't what you're looking for.