Gather Info vs. Diplomacy

[Khorod]

Gather Info vs. Diplomacy... when trying to get information, which do you use when?

I view gather info as a skill of casually hanging out in a bar, making chitchat, and coming away with knowledge people didn't realize they were giving away.

Diplomacy/Intimidate, on the other hand, is between you, and someone or somegroup else. You walk in, attract the attention of those concerned, and enter into negotations for the desired knowledge, using diplomacy to butter them up, and Intimidate to bring them into line when they get uppity.

Sense Motive, of course, is used by both to gage the reactions of the people around you, to whatever end.

 

[Khaalis]

That's about the same way I see the skills, in an overly simplified way. It really comes down to the situation in question. A tough guy with Intimidate who walks into a Wizard's guild and tries to use Intimidate to get information, no matter how good his die rolls are, is going to be in for a big surprise. Likewise a sly witted Rogue with Information Gathering trying to sweet talk a stolid and reserved Paladin out of information is likely to end up with at least a handful less hair by the end of the night.

Each of the skills needs to be applied in the approriate situation based on the environment, who is gathering the info, and from whom the information is coming from. At least that's how I see it.

 

[Drawmack]

Gather Information is used when the the PC is seeing what they can find out from someone.

Diplomacy is used to change the attitude of the person/group the PC is dealing with.

Now the PC could attempt to be diplomatic there by giving the NPC a better disposition and then could attempt to gather information in which case they get more information.

I also give these skills a synergy bonus.

 

[MarauderX]

I view it the same way as Drawmack, except no synergy bonus to keep the skills separate and distinctly different. Once upon a time in Shadowrun there was a skills relation chart that let you try to do something similiar compared to a skill you have mastered, with associated negatives. Example would be a wizard with Craft(Armorsmith)=5 tries to build a crossbow. Ordinarily the wizard wouldn't stand a chance, but if there were cross-skills, he may only have, say, a -3 penalty to make it. The same would go for the social/interaction skills, as they would be grouped together for being related. Until that happens in a way I can rely upon and quote with firm confindence, no synergy bonuses from me.

 

[Drawmack]

I give the synergy bonus based on a little of my, often twisted, logic.

Someone who is diplomatic will be good a calming people and basically bending people around their little finger. This being the case someone who is trained in diplomacy can get some information from people just by being diplomatic.

Someone who is really good at getting information from people is good that this because they know how and when to be diplomatic to a point. This being the case they accomplish some diplomacy just by gathering information.

Also for some rules cross referencing:

from the srd

Diplomacy:
If the character has 5 or more ranks in Bluff or Sense Motive, the character gets a +2 synergy bonus on Diplomacy checks. These bonuses stack

So bluff and sense motive both give a synergy bonus on diplomacy.

Why is this the case?
Why not add the synergy between gather info and diplomacy.

 

[Stalker0]

So bluff and sense motive both give a synergy bonus on diplomacy.

Why is this the case?
Why not add the synergy between gather info and diplomacy.

I agree with drawmack that someone who is diplomatic would probably have better luck getting information. I don't think it works in reverse though, I woudn't give a syn bonus to diplomacy for high gather info.

As for the main question, i consider gather info more of a roll and forget spell. You enter a bar, you roll a dice, you see what you pick up. Diplomacy is a roleplaying skill, it involves personal interaction with other characters, and usually should be played out somewhat.

 

[Khorod]

Okay, I more or less agree with everything so far... so good. I know what's up with these skills.

This question is related to 'types' of charisma. If you have a charming, down-to-earch charismatic fellow, and the regal presence that attracts all eyes and all respect...

well, how does the regal presence play into being good at gathering information? Wouldn't that sort of charisma tend to make people pay close attention to you and your actions, and keep a closer grip on their flapping mouth?

Not that I am talking about assigning any special bonuses or penalties here...