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GenCon 2007 - Experience of a newbie Con goer

Erithtotl

First Post
I have played D&D on and off for over 20 years. Ironically I grew up in Indianapolis when Gen-Con was in Wisconsin. Now I live in New York, Gen Con is in Indy. Until last year I had never been to a Con of significant size. I decided to combine a trip home to visit family with a brief stop at GenCon. I played in the 1st round of the D&D Open, and shopped a little over part of a day and that was it.

This year I was determined to experience the full thing, signing up for numerous events, meeting up with friends, and dedicating the bulk of 3+ days to the convention.

What I write here might be uninteresting to many of you, but I'd like to give my impressions and summary of my time at the Con. I would think it would be very useful for those who have never gone and are interested in going.


Prep:
I waited until June-July to register events, and discovered that many close very early. I still managed to dig around and register for a number of different things, though not always at the time slots I wanted. I recommend to those who are going for the first time to register for events as soon as they go online, especially if you can eat the cost of a ticket if you decide against attending an event later. But as I discovered later, with most larger, organized events (such as the various RPGA events), you can show up with generic tickets and have a very good shot of getting in.

Rather than breaking this down chronologically I'll just describe the different parts of the Con I experienced:

Vendor Exhibition Hall:
This is truly one of the highlights of the Con, especially if you have money to spend. While most RPG merchendise is available on the web, strolling all these booths in person, and casually interacting with the designers, editors, artists and programmers that make all this happen is fantastic. At the Paizo booth I realized I was talking to James Jacobs and got my Dragon 150 signed. Wayne Reynolds was there selling the originals of his best work. The developers for RPGXplorer and Campaign Cartographer were there and willing to give you their time, etc...

I was very impressed with many of the electronic gaming set ups. Games like the Witcher, the NWN2 expansion, the Conan MMORPG and others had their programmers and designers on hand to describe their titles, answer questions and give demos. Dell had a gaming area setup where you could play the yet-to-be-released Crysis on a top-end machine and Blizzard had a dozen fully-playable Starcraft 2 stations.

The overall experience and enjoyableness of the Hall resulted in me dropping quite a bit of $$$, but I came out feeling good about the experience.

Ganeral Gaming:

I played in 2 games before the D&D Open. The first, an introductory Star Wars RPGA adventure (Dawn of Defiance) was a decent introduction to the new Saga edition rules. Also, this was a case where I joined a game I did not have a ticket, even though it was 'full' by using generic tickets. Unfortuantely, the module was tremendously short. Even after the DM intentionally dragged the action out, and with numerous interruptions we finished an hour earlier than the supposed session length.
The second event was the 'Shargon's Rage' Xendrick Expeditions adventure. It was a little overwehlming building a 7th Xendrick character with the extensive requirements list, but me and my 3 gamer friends managed to be ready, playing with two other pickup players. Our DM was quite good, but the gaming experience was totally underwhelming. The adventure was incredibly easy and simple for a group of 7th level PCs, and much of the plot logic made little sense. There was a sequence near the end that lasted near an hour where the party is bombarding enemies and siege engines from the air, where the targets on the ground have essentially no way of fighting back. During the adventure we were all healed once fully and allowed to rest another time, even though we could have easily completed the adventure without such assistance. It was utterly pointless and we came out feeling that Xendrick was not something we wanted to play further.

The 4th edition announcement:
Most of us had plenty of warning what the big '4d' announcement would be, and since it was held in the same place as the D&D Open event we would be playing in a little later, most of us managed to attend. I know this has been discussed endlessly here on the boards but here were our impressions of the announcement:
1) One of the biggest things to stick out was the incredibly awkward and amateur way the annoucement was handled. The presentation itself was as dry as the worst corporate powerpoint I have witnessed, and the speakers seemed nervous and lacked confidence. It really felt like a) they had little faith in what they were presenting and b) they were rushed to prepare for the announcement.
2) The audience reaction was very muted. The few applause lines (electronic versions of your products available to you), were quickly deadened when reality set in (subscription fee required to access any of this). The final applause was mild and mixed with a solid amount of boos.
3) The concensus amongst many I talked to was a) While they wouldn't mind 4e if the changes were along the lines of Star Wars Saga edition, they felt no burning desire for a new edition of the game b) there seemed to be this overwehlming feeling from Wizards that D&D had to be made more like World of Warcraft, which seemed to say that these guys have no idea why people play D&D
4) The demos of the new electronic apps that were to be the core of 4e (the virtual dungeon and character designer) looked primative and underwhelming to an audience used to CRPG gaming.

To summarize, everything felt rushed and incomplete, including the timelines for 4e release. My own personal opinion is that is seemed to me like they were really targeting 4e for 2009 (which would give them time to playtest and actually develop good online properties), and that there was pressure from the business side to release early.

The D&D Open:
For the open, we came in reasonably well prepared, as two of us had played together last year, and myself and 3 friends had played together regularly for several years. We had spent time planning how we would play the horribly designed pregen PCs and we got lucky and picked up two solid players to fill out or group.
Without going into extensive detail, we made it deep into the final battle of the first round without suffering a character death when time expired. We felt we did well but did not have high hopes of making round two. Playing late on Friday, we had to wait until past 12:30 before discovering if we advanced (um, maybe posting the results online would be a good idea?). When the results were posted, we discovered we had not advanced.

The following day we were planning an evening reunion game of our old home campaign when one of our players discovered that the advancement list had been ammendend (sometime around 2-3pm saturday, a bit last minute for a 7pm kickoff). We had made the second round. This was met with much consternation as we had already made plans for the evening but we couldn't see ourselves not playing having advanced. We managed to reunite the group and were ready for round 2.

Round 2 started with a disappointment as our PCs were still 6th level, despite plowing through some insanely high EL encounters in round one. Our PCs were identical in equipment, including disposable items. Round 1 was exclusively a straightforward dungeon crawl, and Round 2 seemingly started the same way, but soon turned into a crushing disappointment. Not obvious at first, we discovered after several rounds that the first encounter was a gimmicky 'guess what the designer was thinking' scenario. The encounter spawned endless swarms of challenging CR 4 or 5 opponents with unusual special abilities, and gave no information as to why they were spawning or how to stop them (or even that they were 'spawning' rather than just arriving from off map, until it was too late). We learned afterwards that the two methods of success were 1) killing an invisible sorceror (of whom we had no way to detect his presence unless he chose to reveal himselfm and who was clearly not powerful enough to spawn endless powerful opponents) or 2) running through the exit, where like a videogame the monsters wouldn't follow you.

We struggled on as well as we could but eventually suffered the inevitible TPK. Several other groups had already wiped. We noticed that one of the groups who had made it further just happened to be DM'd by the designer of the adventure. Hmmm, might it be that the designer had a better idea of what clues to drop to help us move on? Even so, the scenario in no way resembled D&D as I see it. We cared little that we had been wiped out. In fact we saw it as a chance to move on and play our reunion home game as planned, but we were all disappointed at how bad and arbitrary the encounter had been. I have big doubts about playing the Open again after this.

Side gaming:
Maybe the most fun I had in any gaming event was our reunion game. We grabbed a table in the Hyatt and played into the wee hours of Sunday morning. Myself and my 3 friends are all hoping I think to make this an anual event (our old DM moved away, so this is our only chance to play in that campaign again).

In summary:
I had a good experience at GenCon, though I think in the future I need to figure out a better way of determining what will be good events, as I was on average underwhelmed. I may plan on limiting my visits to 2 days in the future unless I see a compelling reason otherwise. It's definitely an experience worth having if you've never been and are any kind of serious gamer, especially if you have some disposable income.
 

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meleeguy

First Post
Thanks

I too am a long time player who has never been to a gencon. Your writeup is appreciated, given that I've been thinking of going as well.

I'm curious, did you choose your spell load out and equipment, or was that pre-determined? I did a mini-con D&D tournament many years ago and I made sure that they had the gear to do the job.
 

Erithtotl

First Post
meleeguy said:
I too am a long time player who has never been to a gencon. Your writeup is appreciated, given that I've been thinking of going as well.

I'm curious, did you choose your spell load out and equipment, or was that pre-determined? I did a mini-con D&D tournament many years ago and I made sure that they had the gear to do the job.

For the open the pregens are voted on by the community before GenCon. The two years I have been in it they've been pretty bad, and in fact every judge I talked to at GenCon remarked at how bad the pregens were. For example, the divine caster, a favored soul, had no healing spell above 1st level. The sorceroress had a 12 Con, a 10 dex and a 14 intelligence, 20hp and a base 10ac. The highest listen check in the party was +2 or +3.

Regardless of the awful PCs, the real problem with the 2nd round of the open was the arbitrary module design of the worst kind. It was very much akin to 'what have I got in my pocket'.
 

Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
This was my second Gencon -- and my second year playing in the open. Both times I've made it to the finals. I really enjoy the open -- it's a very different feel for a D&D game, very challenging and deadly. I'm sorry that you were disappointed with your experience with it this year.

While I can understand a certain level of frustration with the characters, since we all get the same characters, it doesn't really matter if we all have INT bonuses of +2 or +8 == what matters is what we do with what we're given. And how we play together, how well we respond to difficult situations and, frankly, how long you can survive when the deck is very, very badly stacked against you.

By the same token, I don't think it much matters whether the PCs have leveled up in the second round. They did gain a new level for the third round, but that made very little true difference -- every team gained those levels, got the new gear and abilities and spells, etc.

Metagame awareness is, I think, an important factor in being successful. One of the first things you need to identify is what sort of encounter you're facing -- is this a trap, a puzzle, a straight-up fight, or a gauntlet you need to run through. Or something else entirely. Learning to read the signs is key -- if it takes you three or four combat rounds to realize that you shouldn't be fighting the encounter to the bitter end, you're going to end up burning through resources you're going to need later.

In my limited experience, Judging does make a big difference, but I have yet to have a judge that I didn't think was trying to do a good job, and be as fair as possible. There are going to be differences and challenges because we're all human, but they're doing everything they can.

But the bottom line of the Open experience is that the adventure is not really designed to make it possible for you to succeed -- which is very, very different from typical adventure design. Open adventures are, necessarily, designed to make it nearly impossible to succeed. Every decision needs to be potentially a TPK. They're trying to winnow each heat down to a few teams, and have enough distinction between teams to make it easy to score teams -- and if success is even reasonably possible, it's going to be too hard to judge.

In the final round, the team that won (Aqua Team Hunger Force, the Dallas Cowboys of the D&D Open, having won now three years in a row. Clearly it's time for those clowns to retire -- hear me, Jollydoc? ;) ) was the ONLY team (I think) that actually finished the entire adventure in the time alloted. Some of us got close -- our group (3rd place) was one of (I think) 4 that made it to the final room, but when time ran out we were a few rounds away from finishing -- and that's assuming we could have survived -- and that is by no means something I can say with confidence was going to happen. We were about as tapped out as we could be, had nothing left, and actually finishing that scene successfully would have been a major feat.

Anyway, I understand your frustration. But I think you're not being entirely fair, complaining about the characters and the judges -- the characters are all the same for every party, so they're a non-issue, and blaming the judges for what amounts to the necessary style of the open is not really fair, either.

Last year, we made it to the finals and had an amazingly disappointing show in the finals. In the first encounter area, we didn't move fast enough despite repeated descriptions of the complex shaking and rocks falling from the ceiling . . . . then, just as we were leaving the area, the ceiling collapsed, killing two characters -- our two fighter types. There was no warning other than the description -- I had naturally assumed that there would be a round or two of taking damage from falling rocks before the whole thing fell in, but it all came down at once. One of the two fighter types that died was standing in the last square before the exit, waiting for the other fighter . . . and in a home game or more typical game, a GM might have offered a reflex save to dive out to safety when the ceiling came down, but there was no escape.

We managed to get three of the four characters to the final room by simply running through most of the other encounter areas . . . then the three that made it were quickly eaten by the aspect of tiamat at the end. It was messy.

Anyway, it wasn't the judge's fault, or the fault of the adventure's writers, that we lost our two fighters that way. It was a necessary part of the Open format.

It sucked, and it sure made for a long drive home, but that's just a lesson we had to learn about the open. I hope you'll come back to play the open again next year - this year's experience will help you improve your showing next year.
 
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Radiating Gnome

Adventurer
Erithtotl said:
Regardless of the awful PCs, the real problem with the 2nd round of the open was the arbitrary module design of the worst kind. It was very much akin to 'what have I got in my pocket'.

I don't want to go nuts trying to defend the adventure design -- I don't think the Open needs to be a complete or coherent adventure, really -- it needs to be a series of encounters with varied challenges that severely test a party's ability to overcome them.

I do vaguely recall a bit of prepared text that hinted at the trap door exit that you needed to use to escape the first encounter area with the gnolls. I don't remember exactly what the context was for it -- I think it was part of the introduction, maybe I am making an association between unrelated bits, but one way or another when they laid out the room and we saw the trap door we pretty much knew instinctively that we would be going down through the trap door. And when it became clear that the gnolls were not going to stop coming, we got ourselves to the exit and got the heck out of dodge.

So, I don't think it's quite as bad as "what's in my pocket" -- but it certainly helped that our group started with an understanding that there might be neverending encounters. Had we be playing the open for the first time, we might easily have taken a few more rounds to figure that out -- burning that much more time and resources that we would need later. But, it's like the collapsing ceiling I mentioned in my previous post -- every other D&D experience I've had told me that there would be a few rounds of damage from falling rocks, and the possibility of a last ditch saving through to escape the falling ceiling. But the open is different.

-rg
 

Erithtotl

First Post
Radiating Gnome said:
I don't want to go nuts trying to defend the adventure design -- I don't think the Open needs to be a complete or coherent adventure, really -- it needs to be a series of encounters with varied challenges that severely test a party's ability to overcome them.

I do vaguely recall a bit of prepared text that hinted at the trap door exit that you needed to use to escape the first encounter area with the gnolls. I don't remember exactly what the context was for it -- I think it was part of the introduction, maybe I am making an association between unrelated bits, but one way or another when they laid out the room and we saw the trap door we pretty much knew instinctively that we would be going down through the trap door. And when it became clear that the gnolls were not going to stop coming, we got ourselves to the exit and got the heck out of dodge.

So, I don't think it's quite as bad as "what's in my pocket" -- but it certainly helped that our group started with an understanding that there might be neverending encounters. Had we be playing the open for the first time, we might easily have taken a few more rounds to figure that out -- burning that much more time and resources that we would need later. But, it's like the collapsing ceiling I mentioned in my previous post -- every other D&D experience I've had told me that there would be a few rounds of damage from falling rocks, and the possibility of a last ditch saving through to escape the falling ceiling. But the open is different.

-rg
The adventure only works if you throw logic out of the window. The ladder past the trapdoor is literally hundreds of feet high. In ANY OTHER D&D adventure, traversing a 300 foot high ladder while being chased by monsters and spell casters is a sure recipe for suicde. That the module is written to have the monsters stop stupidly at the top of the ladder in nonsensical. The fact that you figured out the gimmick was swell for you, but my problem is that if the adventure is designed throwing logic out the window, then how is that D&D? The fact that the box text said our goal was the trap door in no way gives an indication that every monster will stop chasing you once you exit through the door.

As for the other three points, two of them have nothing to do with the compeditive nature of the open. I realize everyone is playing the same characters. Maybe I just don't enjoy playing badly designed ones (and I was pointing out that all the judges thought the characters were terrible). Second, I thought that leveling up the characters would keep things a little fresher and more interesting going from round to round.

As for different judges, there is definitely some element left up to the judge on whether they give you hints or not. For example, our first round judge told us there would be no resting, while the 2nd round judge refused to comment. Small things like that can make a big difference. So if one judge emphasizes the trap door more than another, or clarifies that the monsters streaming in appear to be a magical effect (as I mentioned, it wasn't even clear to us that they were being teleported in until we asked the GM 4 rounds in), or grants listen checks to the party to locate the invisible mage, it can change an entire encounter. I'm not saying our judge was bad, but rather the adventure better explicitly state what should and should not be stressed to the PCs, otherwise in an encounter with such a razor thin margin of error, a small misunderstanding could be what advances one group over another.
 

Rel

Liquid Awesome
Sounds like your GenCon was a mixed bag at best. And here I am saying that it was the Best GenCon EVER. The difference that I can see is that where you mostly signed up for official events and had one "side game", I ONLY had side games that were organized here in the GenCon Pickup Game forum. Every game I was in ROCKED.

To me there is no point in scheduling games that might happen, that might run as long as they are supposed to, might have good players, might have decent GM and might be fun when I can play games with people I see here at ENWorld every day. The people from ENW are going to know that you are not just some nameless Generic Ticket jumping in their game so they can get a free badge for GMing. They know they're going to see you back on the boards next week and that you'll talk about how good or not good your experience gaming with them was. So they're going to work at making it be as good as possible and I've found the quality of those games to be almost universally high.

YMMV but that's the way I've done it every year I've gone to GenCon and I've had so much fun that I'm already planning next year's trip.
 

Erithtotl

First Post
Rel said:
Sounds like your GenCon was a mixed bag at best. And here I am saying that it was the Best GenCon EVER. The difference that I can see is that where you mostly signed up for official events and had one "side game", I ONLY had side games that were organized here in the GenCon Pickup Game forum. Every game I was in ROCKED.

To me there is no point in scheduling games that might happen, that might run as long as they are supposed to, might have good players, might have decent GM and might be fun when I can play games with people I see here at ENWorld every day. The people from ENW are going to know that you are not just some nameless Generic Ticket jumping in their game so they can get a free badge for GMing. They know they're going to see you back on the boards next week and that you'll talk about how good or not good your experience gaming with them was. So they're going to work at making it be as good as possible and I've found the quality of those games to be almost universally high.

YMMV but that's the way I've done it every year I've gone to GenCon and I've had so much fun that I'm already planning next year's trip.

Don't get me wrong, I had a good time, mostly because I played in all those scheduled events with friends. But you are right, I think the side games are the way to go.
 

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