General Discussion

[Satin Knights]

Correct me if I am wrong on this... but a book is an object, yes? Thus a spellbook can technically be a bonded object in and of itself, correct? That was where my confusion of the matter lay, not in the rules issue.

Well, you did say to correct you if you are wrong, so:
"Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded."

and

"A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard’s level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard’s opposition schools (see arcane school)." CRB p.78

The issue of "Does the wizard have to have the spellbook in his possession at the time?" is left open ended by the rules for GM interpretation. But, the spellbook and the bonded object are separate items. Spellbook vs. Spellbooks is technically open ended as well, but since a wizard needs a second spellbook sometime before he starts getting fourth level spells, one can assume the "spellbook" listed in the first level ability covers the "group of individual books" used as the class ability. In other words, "spellbook" = class ability, spellbooks = tools of that ability.

It boils down to, We set the rule a while ago. I don't see us changing it. Cost balances were considered then. Most of us still see it as balanced now considering mages don't have major expenditures in weapons and armor that melee characters have. You have already shown you know the loophole item that makes the point moot long before the costs become significant.

Time to move on.

Artur: Questions are never mistakes. Yes, go ahead and adjust Marcus' spellbook appropriately. And please mark where you learned the spells at in a Consumed Items section or Adventure Log section. See Anaerion as a good example of how.

 

[DalkonCledwin]

Well, you did say to correct you if you are wrong, so:
"Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon. These objects are always masterwork quality. Weapons acquired at 1st level are not made of any special material. If the object is an amulet or ring, it must be worn to have effect, while staves, wands, and weapons must be wielded."

and

"A bonded object can be used once per day to cast any one spell that the wizard has in his spellbook and is capable of casting, even if the spell is not prepared. This spell is treated like any other spell cast by the wizard, including casting time, duration, and other effects dependent on the wizard’s level. This spell cannot be modified by metamagic feats or other abilities. The bonded object cannot be used to cast spells from the wizard’s opposition schools (see arcane school)." CRB p.78

The issue of "Does the wizard have to have the spellbook in his possession at the time?" is left open ended by the rules for GM interpretation. But, the spellbook and the bonded object are separate items. Spellbook vs. Spellbooks is technically open ended as well, but since a wizard needs a second spellbook sometime before he starts getting fourth level spells, one can assume the "spellbook" listed in the first level ability covers the "group of individual books" used as the class ability. In other words, "spellbook" = class ability, spellbooks = tools of that ability.

It boils down to, We set the rule a while ago. I don't see us changing it. Cost balances were considered then. Most of us still see it as balanced now considering mages don't have major expenditures in weapons and armor that melee characters have. You have already shown you know the loophole item that makes the point moot long before the costs become significant.

Time to move on.

Artur: Questions are never mistakes. Yes, go ahead and adjust Marcus' spellbook appropriately. And please mark where you learned the spells at in a Consumed Items section or Adventure Log section. See Anaerion as a good example of how.

okay, so you are penalizing ALL of the spellcasters who are forced to prepare their spells from a pre-determined list in a book, simply because Wizards get to cast a spell from said book once in a in-game 24 hour period (which is the equivalent of a minimum of three real life days by your own rules) spontaneously. The limit of being restricted to one spontaneous casting per 3 days seems like enough of a drawback to me in this format. Why give them additional drawbacks on top of that? And why penalize the other spellbook based classes that don't even have that advantage?

As to your other points. While Wizards may not have those other major expenditures, Alchemists and Magi certainly can. Especially the more martial variety of Magi. And heck even more martial varieties of Wizards such as Arcane Archers, and similar things can have hefty expenditures other than just their spells. Afterall an Arcane Archer for example also needs to pay for his Bow and his Arrows on top of his spells.

Also, the Loophole Item is supposed to be rare and hard to come across. It is not something that is going to be found in every single adventure, and getting it at the Mystic Pearl should be an effort in extreme difficulty to say the least. I mean if every mage had free access to a Blessed Book, they would all be sporting full sets of level 9 spells wouldn't they?

Oh and last I checked, the Staff of Power from the Core Rulebook costs 235,000 GP. That is a pretty hefty expenditure for a Mage to make seeing as how it is the best Staff in the freaking GAME!!! (not counting Artifacts) And it is right up there with the +5 Vorpal Greatsword. So yes. Pure Mages have other expenditures available to them than just their spellbooks. A Mage who relies solely on their spells prepared is a foolish Mage of the highest caliber.

 

[perrinmiller]

DC, I think you should stop.

 

[Scott DeWar]

If it makes any differences, Scott, it is not from a scroll, but Fae'shiel's spellbook, which is where the whole mentor +5 thing came up from.

From the pdf srd for pf rpg:

Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll: 15 + spell level

so no difference.
[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] thanks!

 

[Artur Hawkwing]

From the pdf srd for pf rpg:

Learn a spell from a spellbook or scroll: 15 + spell level

so no difference.

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] thanks!

Yep. GE helped me solve all of that this afternoon, deduce the proper gp and all that good stuff, so my part is resolved.

 

[Artur Hawkwing]

After some valuable suggestions and input, I have completed Marcus' transactions in the Pearl. I ask patience in updating the char sheet, as I will do so tomorrow from the office. My head hurts and it's after bedtime now. I'll edit this post when it is done if someone (perrinmiller ?) wants to review it before I pose into DWI.

 

[Artur Hawkwing]

Okay. I updated my char sheet for Marcus Cole to reflect the transaction from Mystic Pearl and also memorized him some spells now that he's gotten them where he can handle them. Would some kind Judge (or other person who knows) please double check my work? Once I know that is settled well enough, I'll pose into the thread, [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION].

 

[Artur Hawkwing]

When someone gets a moment, could you please eyeball Marcus' sheet (in the sig below) and see why the campaign list is messed up. I tried putting tags on it and it just stopped showing the links and now I can't go fix it, so...need an expert.

 

[GlassEye]

Your heading was inside the [pre] tags. I removed them and added a few missing spaces so it would format properly. Everything is fine now.

 

[Artur Hawkwing]

Thank ya kindly, GE.