Generation Ships--- Can we build one now?

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
So, forced abortion.

Or, forced contraception measures, and working the occasional extra kid into your long term plan. We are talking about decades and centuries of travel time - the plan is long term population control, not "OMG, we have one extra kid, we are DOOOOOOooooooOOOOOmed!" If you have one unplanned kid, you just cut down on the planned births next year, and it evens out.

Your approach to this seems... always catastrophic. We have centuries to work with, not minutes.

We're stripping away the reproductive rights of thousands of people without their permission. Now, we can certainly do that. Sure. But, let's not pretend that we're not committing massive human rights violations to do so. "Some sacrifices" seems a tad euphemistic.

For everyone who gets on board to start with, it is entirely voluntary.

For people who are born in flight - they are taught from a young age exactly what the stakes are. They can be taught the plan, and about population dynamics. They can understand that population growth needs to be controlled. And note for most of these people, it isn't that they *cannot* have kids. It is a question of when, and how many. And, if we are smart, some of that will be negotiable, and we can plan around it. If one couple doesn't want kids, that's cool, another couple that does want them can have more.


I think you're failing to note how that we here on this board are, for the most part, highly privileged people. Most of the population of the planet you are standing on still aren't. Humans are already born into cultures they cannot control, many with aspects we think of as human rights violations, and they have no way out of them either. You are speaking as if the ship failing to be a utopia is somehow a major failing.


Hard to plant in space.

No, it isn't. You spin the ship anyway to create a centrifugal gravity to make sure human bone development happens normally, which gives you planting surfaces. Use lots of hydroponics. The plants become part of your biological and air recycling systems.
 

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tomBitonti

Adventurer
Then it cannot be done at all.

Humans *do not* stay static. No society on Earth has stayed static for so long, and we should not suspect it here. Yes, abject failure is catastrophic, but *the people know that*. Their situation, and the fact that hard vacuum is just outside, is not lost upon them.

But, do they change because they are forced to by external influence, or do they change because they are inherently unstable? Aboriginal culture, which was isolated until relatively recently, was apparently stable for at least 50,000 years.

Also, "static" vs "non-static" is too crisp. Clearly, there will be new people over time, so the society cannot be absolutely the same. But just changing individuals within a society doesn't seem to be enough to say a society changed. What sorts of changes are necessary to indicate a changed (non-static) society?

Thx!
TomB
 


Shasarak

Banned
Banned
No. The resupply idea is probably not workable unless we get some sort of tech that allows faster than light travel and has a mass limit that keeps the generation ship from using it, but allows the supply ships to use it.

The generation ship has humans on it so that limits your acceleration. A supply ship would not have that restriction.

And if you had FtL travel then you could just go and pick up everyone from the generation ship, like a space uber.
 

MarkB

Legend
The generation ship has humans on it so that limits your acceleration. A supply ship would not have that restriction.

The generation ship also has humans on it to perform periodic maintenance and repairs. The supply ships have to survive for hundreds or thousands of years without that. If you're adding long-term high-gee acceleration, even the toughest mechanisms have their limits.
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
The generation ship also has humans on it to perform periodic maintenance and repairs. The supply ships have to survive for hundreds or thousands of years without that. If you're adding long-term high-gee acceleration, even the toughest mechanisms have their limits.

If you can use solar sails to get the initial acceleration then all the ship would have to do is de accelerate and maneuver to match with the Generation ship. Thats not a hard problem compared to the Generation ship itself.
 

MarkB

Legend
If you can use solar sails to get the initial acceleration then all the ship would have to do is de accelerate and maneuver to match with the Generation ship. Thats not a hard problem compared to the Generation ship itself.

If you want the later-launched supply ship to actually catch up with the generation ship, especially late into its voyage, then it can't simply accelerate to the generation ship's speed - it has to travel significantly faster in order to overhaul it. That means it's going to have to decelerate a lot once it gets close, and it can't use solar sails for that - it needs to use actual engines, engines which at that point will have been mothballed for centuries. That is a hard problem, even when compared with the generation ship itself.
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
If you want the later-launched supply ship to actually catch up with the generation ship, especially late into its voyage, then it can't simply accelerate to the generation ship's speed - it has to travel significantly faster in order to overhaul it. That means it's going to have to decelerate a lot once it gets close, and it can't use solar sails for that - it needs to use actual engines, engines which at that point will have been mothballed for centuries. That is a hard problem, even when compared with the generation ship itself.

If you are an RPG geek then it is a hard problem. If you are a Rocket Scientist then its just a Tuesday.
 



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