Gentlemen Magicians

[Stormborn]

Except for the divination, almost all of the spells in the book are of epic level power. The only real exception is bringing back the dead (a 5th level spell in D&D terms), and that's completely beyond the grasp of mortal magic.

If your PCs will be gentlemen (nonspellcasting) magicians, why actually use a magic system at all? why not just use DM fiat?

Oh, I realize that in "JS & Mr.N" all the spells are extremly powerful. Thats not what I meant at all. I have no intintion of the PCs casting that kind of magic, or even of that kind of magic beign used in the setting. My intent is not to recreate the book, or to set a game in the same world as the book, but rather to capture that odd feel of "English Magic" that is in the book, and in some other works I have read. The "occult lore and mesmerism" mentioned earlier.

I certianly feel like a skill and/or feat based magic system is going to be the way to go on this. I have looked at the previews for Mage, and don't think my group would care for the system. Same with Ars Magica.

I am beginign to feel that this is one of those things that to truly be done right, requires a system all its own. Something that I am just not quite up to doing at the moment and so will continue to look at and entertain any helpful suggestions for a d20 fix.

 

[Quickleaf]

Mr Quickleaf, it might almost be construed that you had the ability to read my very thoughts, for indeed I am working an a game which would be entitled Regency Magica, covering the very same period being proposed here. While this would not be a published game (AM is not OGL, etc.), I do intend to put sections up at the website I am associated with (see tagline below) as time permits.

My players are extatic on this point.

I would be too! And wonderful website, btw. Definitely worth a gander or two.

 

[arscott]

Oh, I realize that in "JS & Mr.N" all the spells are extremly powerful. Thats not what I meant at all. I have no intintion of the PCs casting that kind of magic, or even of that kind of magic beign used in the setting. My intent is not to recreate the book, or to set a game in the same world as the book, but rather to capture that odd feel of "English Magic" that is in the book, and in some other works I have read. The "occult lore and mesmerism" mentioned earlier.

I certianly feel like a skill and/or feat based magic system is going to be the way to go on this. I have looked at the previews for Mage, and don't think my group would care for the system. Same with Ars Magica.

I am beginign to feel that this is one of those things that to truly be done right, requires a system all its own. Something that I am just not quite up to doing at the moment and so will continue to look at and entertain any helpful suggestions for a d20 fix.

Ah. I see.

It strikes me that English Magic is almost vancian in nature. One one side, whe have spells invented by the Aurate and Argentine magicians, and on the other, spells created by Mordenkeinen, Bigby, Tenser and the rest. The spells themselves are defined entities with discreet effects, but never-the-less, they're devised from understandable and quantifiable principles. the only thing missing is the fire-and-forget.

At the same time, D&D spells are too static. You'd expect a competent magician to be able to sit down and with a few minutes of work, alter a fireball so it's cube shaped, or it does cold damage. Likewise, a particularly skilled magician should be able to work up an entirely new spell in a few hours. Metamagic feats and spell research rules just aren't going to cut it.

So if I were you, I'd pick out a system that kept the well-defined spells, but dropped the spells by level/spells per day/fire and forget model. I've heard very good things about Grim Tales, and Call of Cthulhu was already mentioned. You also might want to take a look at the Incantation/Ritual/Epic Spell system from Urban Arcana/Unearthed Arcana/Epic Level Handbook, though it'll need some modification to make it work for low-level spell effects.

Once that's out of the way, all you'd need to do is to come up with a system for spell modification and spell research. Or get someone else to do it for you.

Also, on an unrelated note, Yay for the impending release of EoM:Mythic Earth!

 

[Stormborn]

Actually, I don't think English Magic as presented in the book is Vancian at all. You are right about the reliance on older magicians, but in almost every case Strange has to modified and combine poorly recorded spells to do what he wants. I don't think the spells are inherently discreet at all. Perhaps there are "understandable and quantifiable principles" of magic, but they too are ill defined. I do agree "You'd expect a competent magician to be able to sit down and with a few minutes of work, alter a fireball so it's cube shaped, or it does cold damage. Likewise, a particularly skilled magician should be able to work up an entirely new spell in a few hours." All of which seems inherently non-Vancian.

Sigh, if only Black Company's rules weren't so complicated. I hear that they are going to release them as stand alone for more standrad d20, maybe that will work.

 

[RangerWickett]

Stormborn, would you like a copy of the text of Mythic Earth, as a sample before the book comes out?

 

[Stormborn]

Stormborn, would you like a copy of the text of Mythic Earth, as a sample before the book comes out?

I would be delighted, thank you. I believe you have, or once had, my e-mail adress, but let me know if I need to provide it.

 

[RangerWickett]

Please do. Or just email me at RangerWickett@hotmail.com, and I can reply with a sample.

 

[teitan]

I'd suggest the new World of Darkness as Mage comes out on Friday and all you would need to do is change setting information to reflect the 1800s and voila...

Jason

 

[RangerWickett]

Mage is a nifty system, yes.

Why yes, I did buy a copy at Gen Con. Ooh. Aah. I am one of an elite 300.

 

[teitan]

Eat me. LOL