Gestalt Help

[Belzbet]

What if a Character was a gestalt fighter/bard then took levels in,lets say, the Warchanter Prestige Class and the Bard calss at the same time. So the lets say at level 7 it would be a Warchanter/Bard. It says that warchanter and bard levels stack for purposes of how many songs a day they can use. Would you guys cap it at the characters HD or would you give them extra song uses? I am inlcined to cap it at the characters HD I just wanted to know what you gys think.

 

[Loonook]

What if a Character was a gestalt fighter/bard then took levels in,lets say, the Warchanter Prestige Class and the Bard calss at the same time. So the lets say at level 7 it would be a Warchanter/Bard. It says that warchanter and bard levels stack for purposes of how many songs a day they can use. Would you guys cap it at the characters HD or would you give them extra song uses? I am inlcined to cap it at the characters HD I just wanted to know what you gys think.

They don't stack. If you have a level of a class with ANOTHER level that provides the same benefit you only get the 1 benefit... So you would be better served going with 2 PrCs or sticking with the opposite main class.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Sekhmet]

Actually, Loonook, I would disagree with you. The Bard ability "Bardic Music" is not quite the same as the War Chanter's "War Chanter Music". Specifically, the War Chanter Music ability denotes a difference between the two, and it has the clause that War Chanter levels do not stack with Bard levels for determining access to songs.

Let them stack as normal. Yes, your Bard will have more songs per day.

The rule Loonook is referencing is the one that prevents a person from stacking Sneak Attack to crazy amounts, or Spellcasting caster levels/spells, etc.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

In my gestalt rules, I'd have requird you to take Warchanter on your bard side. But since the base gestalt rules are pretty lax, it would seem they would stack. Wouldn't be that powerful, really...

Sidenote: I consider it a total oversight / 3.0 to 3.5 conversion error that Warchanter, which requires inspire courage and grants its own musical abilities, does not advance your IC bonus. It should stack w/ bard to advance that. In 3.0 IC did not improve with levels, so I'm sure that's why it came out like it did, considering the time of Complete Warrior's release.

 

[Loonook]

Actually, Loonook, I would disagree with you. The Bard ability "Bardic Music" is not quite the same as the War Chanter's "War Chanter Music". Specifically, the War Chanter Music ability denotes a difference between the two, and it has the clause that War Chanter levels do not stack with Bard levels for determining access to songs.

Let them stack as normal. Yes, your Bard will have more songs per day.

The rule Loonook is referencing is the one that prevents a person from stacking Sneak Attack to crazy amounts, or Spellcasting caster levels/spells, etc.

War chanter music follows the same
rules as bardic music (see page 29 of the Player’s Handbook). War
chanter levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining
how often a character can use war chanter music or
bardic music. War chanter levels do not stack with bard levels
for determining which songs a bard has access to.

A listed the Chanter levels stack together for purposes of uses/day (and wipe themselves per the Gestalt rules in UA:

Gestalt Characters :: d20srd.org[/url]), Emphasis mine]

In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. If the two classes you choose have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all aspects that don’t overlap.

You do NOT gain additional uses for double-leveling. You DO gain the ability to continue gaining Bard Music powers... So if you desire to be slightly meh in comparison to individuals who dual-PrC into favorable classes (Sublime Chord if you can double Bard PrC, or a more effective melee/spellcasting class depending on your side of the gish) be my guest.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Loonook]

Actually, Loonook, I would disagree with you. The Bard ability "Bardic Music" is not quite the same as the War Chanter's "War Chanter Music". Specifically, the War Chanter Music ability denotes a difference between the two, and it has the clause that War Chanter levels do not stack with Bard levels for determining access to songs.

Let them stack as normal. Yes, your Bard will have more songs per day.

The rule Loonook is referencing is the one that prevents a person from stacking Sneak Attack to crazy amounts, or Spellcasting caster levels/spells, etc.

War chanter music follows the same
rules as bardic music (see page 29 of the Player’s Handbook). War
chanter levels stack with bard levels for the purpose of determining
how often a character can use war chanter music or
bardic music. War chanter levels do not stack with bard levels
for determining which songs a bard has access to.

A listed the Chanter levels stack together for purposes of uses/day (and wipe themselves per the Gestalt rules in UA:

Gestalt Characters :: d20srd.org[/url]), Emphasis mine]

In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. If the two classes you choose have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all aspects that don’t overlap.

You do NOT gain additional uses for double-leveling. You DO gain the ability to continue gaining Bard Music powers from that Bard side... So if you desire to be slightly meh in comparison to individuals who dual-PrC into favorable classes (Sublime Chord if you can double Bard PrC, or a more effective melee/spellcasting class depending on your desired levels of gishiness) be my guest.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Belzbet]

l oversight / 3.0 to 3.5 conversion error that Warchanter, which requires inspire courage and grants its own musical abilities, does not advance your IC bonus. It should stack w/ bard to advance that. In 3.0 IC did not improve with levels, so I'm sure that's why it came out like it did, considering the time of Complete Warrior's release.

Yeah that is strange. I may have to house rule an increase to IC (even though a Warchanter/Bard wouldnt need the Warchanters increase to IC; it makes sense that a regular Warchanter gets the increase).

 

[Sekhmet]

-Loonook.

Per Gestalt rules, they do not overlap. Overlapping is when you acquire the same feature twice (ie: Sneak Attack), not when two abilities stack (as is the case with most PrC).

 

[Loonook]

Per Gestalt rules, they do not overlap. Overlapping is when you acquire the same feature twice (ie: Sneak Attack), not when two abilities stack (as is the case with most PrC).

Alright... Then a Monk/Fighter 5, Monk/Shintao Monk 10, Monk/Henshin Monk 5 has a total of 35 levels of Monk stacking abilities? So he's moving at level 13 he's moving at 100 FT/round, with a +4 AC bonus, and all of the other fancy abilities of a monk... Oh, he also maxes out past the Epic Monk's listing here.. 1/5 monk level or equivalent... +10/3 levels on the Epic board...

So your Monk has 140 ft/round move, +7 to his AC... Oh, and he also has some rather gnarly bits for his powers from Shintao and Henshin. Of course he also has +16 BAB and tops out the old Monk Combat charts for unarmed attacks, though if you follow the chart +13/10/7/4/1 for his additional attacks for being Monk awesome... Not including all the goodies from the two monk classes.

The intention of the rule as you quote it allows any class that stacks levels to produce 35 levels worth of 'stacking' (as long as you can enter into a qualifying PrC by level 5 which is... Definitely possible).

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[Sekhmet]

Alright... Then a Monk/Fighter 5, Monk/Shintao Monk 10, Monk/Henshin Monk 5 has a total of 35 levels of Monk stacking abilities? So he's moving at level 13 he's moving at 100 FT/round, with a +4 AC bonus, and all of the other fancy abilities of a monk... Oh, he also maxes out past the Epic Monk's listing here.. 1/5 monk level or equivalent... +10/3 levels on the Epic board...

So your Monk has 140 ft/round move, +7 to his AC... Oh, and he also has some rather gnarly bits for his powers from Shintao and Henshin. Of course he also has +16 BAB and tops out the old Monk Combat charts for unarmed attacks, though if you follow the chart +13/10/7/4/1 for his additional attacks for being Monk awesome... Not including all the goodies from the two monk classes.

The intention of the rule as you quote it allows any class that stacks levels to produce 35 levels worth of 'stacking' (as long as you can enter into a qualifying PrC by level 5 which is... Definitely possible).

Slainte,

-Loonook.

The Shintao Monk and Henshin Mystic grant "Monk Abilities", it does not stack per Gestalt (you would either get Monk Abilities or Monk Abilities), although all of the remaining class features would be granted.
War Chanter does not grant Bard Abilities, and they do not give the same benefits. They are different abilities. You would acquire both.