Gestalt Rules

[DarkJester]

I've only got 3 players this time around and I think I'm going to let the PC's be gestalt. I'm trying to figure out how some of the things concerning gestalt classes would work out.

For example, how does b.a.b stack? If multi-classing is allowed, and you start as a fighter 1 / rogue 1, and continue progressing rogue, but switch the fighter to cleric, would the character have full base attack bonus? (As the places where the rogue would lose 1 b.a.b are overlapped by places where the cleric would gain 1).

Similarly, how would saves stack?

 

[Nifft]

Nothing stacks. Everything overlaps.

You get the best of either, not the sum of both.

For example, Ranger // Wizard has 3 good saves, d8 HD, full BAB, 6 + Int skill points/level.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

Also, both skill lists would be considered class skills, and spell slots would be tracked seperately. For multiclassing, you would have the best of either half. A fighter1-cleric1/rogue2 would have a +1 BAB. Same goes for saves.

Special abilities stack, however, so if classes get uncanny dodge, you would get improved uncanny dodge. Later getting improved uncanny dodge would net you nothing, and you would track both halves of the PC seperately for determining what could flank you (max being you character level).

 

[Nifft]

Special abilities stack, however, so if classes get uncanny dodge, you would get improved uncanny dodge.

You're wrong, and this is exactly the one ability where this is called out:

Class features that two classes share (such as uncanny dodge) accrue at the rate of the faster class.

"Accrue at the faster rate" -- so if you're a Barbarian // Rogue, you get Uncanny Dodge at 2nd level and Improved Uncanny Dodge at 5th level.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Kat']

I strongly recommend using fractional BAB and saves when playing Gestalt. Saves a lot of thinking.

 

[szilard]

I strongly recommend using fractional BAB and saves when playing Gestalt. Saves a lot of thinking.

This.

(Though I also recommend doing this for non-Gestalt, too...)

-Stuart

 

[Drowbane]

Gestalt Rules

It sure does!!

-ba-bum-ching-

Thank you! I'll be here all week!

 

[Bumamgar]

Unless you also design the campaign with gestalt enemies (which is an extremely painful process as the DM), I think you'll find gestalt to be massively overpowering.

For example, I recently DM'ed the shackled city campaign arc with just two gestalt characters: A fighter/cleric (no multiclassing) and a wizard/(rogue/fighter/duelist). I didn't modify the campaign at all. This meant that XP was only split 2 ways instead of 4+ which led to extremely rapid advancement for the characters. At first this seemed fine, as only being two characters instead of 4+ ment they were massively outnumbered in most battles. However, by level 10 or so, these PCs were gods. Monsters couldn't touch them, and most fights were over by round 2.

As a side note, "Split Ray" + "Avasculate" should never be allowed in any campaign, especially in the hands of a gestalt rogue/wizard (instantly take the BBEG to 1/4 hitpoints, no save... Follow it up with powerword: kill by the cleric, and you can instantly slay any creature with <400 hp by making two ranged touch attacks)

 

[Nyarlathotep]

I'm also running Shackled City with 4 Gestalt characters (started as three which is why I allowed Gestalting). The characters definately start to get much more powerful, particularly certain class combos (fighter/rogue, scout/sorcerer). That said it hasn't been too out of control yet. For XP I generally consider all monster to be -1 CR (-2 if they're spellcasting types). I also tend to let enemy HP float between what's listed and up to max HP if the fight seems to be going a little easier than I want.

UA suggests Gestalting named/important NPCs but I haven't bothered doing that yet. We're about 1/2 way through the adventure path and it seems to be working out pretty well so far.

 

[Herobizkit]

IMXP, Gestalt characters are extremely fun to play but extremely difficult to DM. A gestalt character can (generally) fight a combat equal to CR+1. Factor in races with level adjustment and you suddenly have a nightmare of bookkeeping.

Right now I am DMing a 1-20 campaign in a box, and the four race/class combinations I've allowed are terrifyingly effective:

Drow Favored Soul/Sorcerer; Male Gnoll Barbarian/Bard; Male Duergar Monk/Psychic Warrior; Goblin Druid/Warlock (with a template identical to the Aasimar stats).

They have marched unopposed for the first 5 levels of the dungeon. And when you factor in LA for earning XP, they have flown up those levels. Now, much to my surprise, they reached the actual recommended character level for their current point in the campaign (5th), but they're CONSIDERED as 7th and 8th for the Drow. (Drow LA +2, the rest +1, +1 for Gestalt).

Naturally, some combinations are most effective than others, but they all pack more of a punch than your standard characters. Keep this in mind when you're running standard modules or pre-gen adventures.