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Getting Out of the Dungeon (Or, "Help! I'm a DM who uses nothing but dungeons!")

MadLordOfMilk

First Post
After some reflections on my DMing, I realized something: 97% of what I throw my players against takes place in some sort of dungeon or underground location. Sure, it's easy to throw together, and simple enough to define the constraints.

But as fun as dungeons are, I need a bit more variety! My lack of experience with things like wilderness adventures, though, leaves me with a complete lack of ideas. Any advice for a DM with even more trouble getting out of dungeons than his PCs?

Thanks!
 

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Snoweel

First Post
Besides wilderness locations, you can use above ground structures, especially big, open areas like courtyards and plazas.

Street fights are always fun, especialy when you've got snipers shooting from rooftops or the first floor.

I don't like dungeons either, not big dungeons anyway, so I use a lot of streets and buildings. Functionally they shouldn't be any different, except for the lack of ceiling outdoors.
 

Celebrim

Legend
Here is the crucial question: are your dungeons good?

Because if the answer to that is, "Yes.", then I can teach you how to do every single other sort of adventure simply by reapplying what you know about dungeons. Really, it's a trivial excercise, and the better your dungeons are the easier it will be to create something else.

If on the other hand, you are doing dungeons to disguise the fact that you can't do anything but random encounters, you've got a deeper problem which is - you have a basic problem thinking up ideas. If this later part is your problem, then the best course of action will be steal ideas and make them your own. I would suggest starting with published modules and spending some time making them your own. Do some self-analysis.

I'll procede for the moment with the assumption that you make good dungeons, and I'll briefly outline how you go from dungeon to anything else.

The basic thing to remember is that every encounter of every sort is a room, and every choice is a corridor. People gravitate to dungeons primarily because the number of choices they present the players is small, so its easier to plan out the adventure ahead of time. With every other sort of adventure, the trick is managing the 'corridors' so that the 'map' of the adventure is simple enough to plan for.

So, you want to do a wilderness adventure, the main points of interest are the rooms, and they are logically linked by corridors according to the sort of graph paper you use for the map. That is, on a square grid, every room is linked by four virtual corridors going North, South, East, and West. If you want to get fancy, then you have NE, NW, SW, and SE, but the judicious use of terrain can be used to effectively block these options if you need to. A simple wilderness adventure might be 'Desert Island Survival'. Your points of interest might be:

a) Rocky area where shelter and fresh water can be obtained.
b) Mountainous area where terrible monster lurks and treasure can be obtained.
c) Swampy area where there is risk of disease and minor monsters.
d) Lagoon where fish can be obtained.
e) Grove where fruits and coconut can be collected by day.
f) Bamboo grove gaurded by minor monster. Raft and other tools can be built here.
g) Rocky area where flint can be obtained for starting fires and making simple stone tools.

All that remains is to connect the areas in a way that is both logical and which develops the story in an interesting way. The story is here primarily one of 'Man against Nature', and you want to arrange the island in such a way that the protagonist must make hazardous journeys across the island to obtain the tools needed first to survive, and ultimately to overcome the terrible monster and escape from the island. This suggests corridors such that, for example, the adventurers must traverse back and forth between the places where shelter can be obtained and those where food can be obtained. Eventually this leads to conflict with the terrible monster, and the need for weapons sufficient to defeat it. This eventually leads to the monsters destruction, the reward of some treasure, and hopefully some eventual escape via raft to some nearby island where some further adventure awaits (for example, the natives know where foreign merchants can be found, but first the players must defeat the nasty witch doctor and his zombie minions).

The island is a dungeon. It has rooms - big rooms, but rooms nonetheless and corridors between them. You just don't describe it that way. You describe it as an island. Behind the screen you are tracking the PC's movement in the exact same way you would in a dungeon.

Or suppose the adventure is, "Survive the assault of orc mauraders." and the setting is a one room farmhouse. This is a very simple event based dungeon. It's worth looking at because it is to event based adventures what a dungeon is that has a single line of rooms connected by a single door. It's linear dungeon. It has a linear map. In the case of the event based dungeon, all the rooms are identical, just the content changes. The players don't have any real choices here. After defeating the monsters in room #1, they enter room #2, and so on. The interesting choices are how do they handle the tactical problems presented using their own resources and the tools you've put in the farmhouse (or its environs).

Of course, just as you can make the map of a dungeon have any degree of complexity, you can make an event driven map be as complex as you like as well. You could have for example, six separate locations each of which has a series of events like the farm house, and going back and forth between the locations determines which rooms the adventurers see. Further, you can put forks in the dungeon, so that depending on choices they make in a particular event, the rooms available to them change. However, if you draw it out, what you end up with is a map that differs from a dungeon only in that it has alot of one way corridors.

If you keep in mind that everything is a dungeon, then you'll be ok. Apply what you know about making dungeons to making things that don't look like dungeons (but are!) interesting, and you'll be fine.
 

Wycen

Explorer
Take baby steps. You are comfortable with constructing dungeon, so try to design your next town with a dungeon in mind.
 

Snoweel

First Post
If on the other hand, you are doing dungeons to disguise the fact that you can't do anything but random encounters, you've got a deeper problem which is - you have a basic problem thinking up ideas. If this later part is your problem, then the best course of action will be steal ideas and make them your own.

Good advice.

One of my own weaknesses is encounter design. I have a tendency to err on the side of realism when designing my own encounters, which can lead to some pretty boring fights, so I like to steal published encounters (and WotC's modules have some brilliant fights in them) and reskin them to fit my story.
 

fba827

Adventurer
If you're worried about other "people" around in a town (who would naturally be inclined to help/join in) then go with a wilderness area, or a ruined fortress (it has levels above ground! :) ), or a small abandoned village (a couple dozen buildings, half of which are crumbling, leaving the other half for little things to explore making it an outdoor dungeon confined to the village perimeter)...
 

Ariosto

First Post
Judges Guild's City State of the Invincible Overlord and surrounding Wilderlands were written up essentially like dungeons, in the laconic style of the time. Most DMs I know use keys a lot less wordy than more modern modules, largely because they have so much in their heads.

I have gotten tons of use out of Chaosium's Griffin Mountain, which unfortunately might be hard to find. Written for RuneQuest, it had a format that might be more in line with 3e or 4e needs than are some older D&D materials.

My #1 resource -- something not to neglect in a good dungeon, either -- is a cast of NPCs. Give them personalities, goals and troubles. When the players interact with those, and the ramifications spread to other NPCs, the campaign takes on a "life of its own". What's likely to happen next tends to suggest itself to me pretty readily.

At least some of your "wandering monsters" should be notable personalities as well, and in any case not every random encounter should be looking to fight.
 

Ariosto

First Post
Dealing with a big area, you need some sense of norms, of what "the usual" is so that you can focus your notes on the unusual and extrapolate what's needed to fill in blanks in between.

(That's important as well in old-style campaign dungeons, in which between 1/2 and 2/3 of the rooms are typically "empty" in monster/ treasure/ trap terms.)

A big leg up can come from drawing on aspects of the real world familiar to you (and maybe to your players). Fritz Leiber put a bit of Los Angeles in his city of Lankhmar; Dave Arneson turned an old Dutch map around for Blackmoor; and Gygax's Greyhawk region originally bore (as I understand it) even more resemblance to Wisconsin than in the later commercial version.

Then again, the basically "medieval European" frame of reference, and the many borrowings from mythology and "pulp fiction", also meant that much did not need to be made up from scratch. If you're an armchair historian of ancient Greece, or the Crusader Kingdoms, or the Mongol Khanates, or Akbar the Great's India, then that might serve a similar purpose for you. You probably have some favorite books, comic books, movies or TV shows from which you can borrow bits without slavishly copying.

With some such starting point, it can be easy to conjure as necessary details of natural history, architecture, technology, customs and so on. Especially with the resources of the Internet, you might often find images and other things that can serve as "players' aid" handouts.
 
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JoeGKushner

First Post
Are we discussing campaign design or changing the scenery of the battleground?

On my blog, I mention things that are useful when running non-dungeon based campaigns.

1. Characters need backstory.

2. Adventurers tend to be player based and focused.

3. Villains tend to have motivations beyond "eat this".

4. Not only monsters challenge heroes. The environment, through wind, rains, floods, earthquakes, and other natural disasters, can provide more challenge than a horde of orcs and is harder to fight against.
 

Snoweel

First Post
The environment, through wind, rains, floods, earthquakes, and other natural disasters, can provide more challenge than a horde of orcs and is harder to fight against.

Be aware though that lack of personification in these threats can be unsatisfying for some players.
 

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