D&D 5E Getting Rid of Variable Weapon Damage- An Immodest Proposal

[Sir Brennen]

I also think that in 5e paradigms, using Proficiency Bonuses differently could do the same. Its kind of a shame that every class uses the same proficiency bonus scale whether using skills, casting spells, or wielding weapons.

Strong disagree here. I think PB being a single value reflecting a character's overall competency which then applies to their class specific abilities was one of the better innovations of 5E.

 

[payn]

Strong disagree here. I think PB being a single value reflecting a character's overall competency which then applies to their class specific abilities was one of the better innovations of 5E.

Uniform mechanics are for sure simpler, but often feel to homogeneous in play. YMMV

 

[Mannahnin]

Strong disagree here. I think PB being a single value reflecting a character's overall competency which then applies to their class specific abilities was one of the better innovations of 5E.

It's a slight variation of a 4E concept, as a side note.

 

[Cruentus]

Strong disagree here. I think PB being a single value reflecting a character's overall competency which then applies to their class specific abilities was one of the better innovations of 5E.

Sure, overall competency, but my wizard is just as good at swinging a sword with that competency as aiming a spell. Seems odd.

I think we could have used a "teeny bit more" more complexity by keeping the "combat" and "magic" (or whatever they were called) PB's from the playtest, specific to each class.

 

[Argyle King]

Today, I want to discuss one of the ideas that is so ingrained in Dungeons & Dragons that it often escapes notice, yet it is as hard-baked into the identity of Dungeons & Dragons as such concepts as the d20, classes, and levels.

I am, of course, talking about variable weapon damage. If you are blinking your eyes in shock and amazement at these words, with a look of incomprehension, this is the concept that different types of weapons do different amounts of damage, and that this is captured by giving different weapons different dice for damage.

For many that play D&D, this is just common sense! If I stab someone with a fork, or I whack them with a giant Conan-esque sword, those will have different effects on the sweet, sweet bags of experience points that I am trying to kill, right? And yet ... I will say that not only does it not have to be this way, it shouldn't be this way. I am going to point out why we shouldn't differentiate damage by weapon type. Moreover, I would like to propose an idea for a new and improved way to conceptualize weapon damage!



2. A Brief Summary of Arguments for and against Variable Damage by Weapon Type.
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Well, the first reason is that differentiating weapons by damage dice is often arbitrary. I don't want to bore you with long digressions into combat simulations, but the received wisdom about the effectiveness of different weapons by damage dice is often more gamist that simulationist. Which is a fancy way of saying that some weapons that are truly effective in some situations (like a spear against a sword) are simply discounted in terms of damage dice. The actual advantages of most weapons are incredibly situational- dependent far more on the armor of your opponent, the weapon your opponent is using, whether your opponent is mounted or on foot, whether you are skilled with that weapon, etc. Most weapons do a sufficient bit of "killing" when in the hands of a skilled person. Moreover, given the ... well, let's say the interesting nature of hit points, it's unclear why we are using differentiated dice at all.



3. What if Weapon Damage was a Function of the Wielder, not the Weapon?
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And that's it- I'm sure other people will have much better ideas; that's what the comments are for. So have at it!

Possible Topics for Discussion

PLEASE NOTE- Static weapon damage means you roll the same die, like a d6, for all weapons. It doesn't mean that you do a standard amount of damage with no rolls.

A. Do you prefer variable weapon damage or static weapon damage?
B. Would we be so uncaring about cutting trees down if they could scream? Maybe, if they screamed all the time, and for no good reason?
C. Would you like a system that made variable weapon damage dependent on the wielder, and not the weapon?

-Using d6 for all weapons and having the ability/stats of the user modify the damage
-weapons having different effectiveness in different situations (sword v spear)

Have you played GURPS?

 

[Sir Brennen]

Sure, overall competency, but my wizard is just as good at swinging a sword with that competency as aiming a spell. Seems odd.

I think we could have used a "teeny bit more" more complexity by keeping the "combat" and "magic" (or whatever they were called) PB's from the playtest, specific to each class.

Except, unless your wizard got training with a sword from his race, another class or feat, he's not as good at swinging a sword. The PB isn't added unless you're proficient. (And that's ignoring the fact he also probably has a high Int and low Strength, making him even better at one over the other, even if he is proficient with the sword.)

 

[loverdrive]

Sorry, just doorkicking this thread.

There are a lot of things I vehemently dislike about Dungeon World, but I think, it tying damage to class rather than the weapon is one of the best things ever.

Fighter is good at fighting — with his bare fists, with a dagger, with a greatsword, doesn't matter. Weapon, though, determines what the character can do with it — oh, you're wielding a dagger? You can stab someone in close quarters with no retaliation — it's not like they can swing their sword in a 3ft wide tunnel, right? Oh, you're wielding a spear? You can keep the enemies at bay, but if they get close... Good luck. Etc, etc.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, overall competency, but my wizard is just as good at swinging a sword with that competency as aiming a spell. Seems odd.

But, in practice, you never actually swing the sword with only that overall competency. You swing it with a stat mod (which may be +0 or even negative). Those who are more fully trained also swing with feats and class abilities changing up what happens.

Looking at that competency alone isn't really an accurate picture. The total end result is what counts.

 

[Malmuria]

My current OSR game of choice is The Whitehack 3e. Here's what the weapons table looks like:

 

[Filthy Lucre]

The only thing I liked about dungeon world was that your damage die was related to your class, not your weapon.