Gno more gnomes?

[Jhaelen]

Gnomes aren't good at casting illusion spells? They're hands-down the best choice for illusionist, and that's before you use the racial substitution levels from Races of Stone. (The first level alone of which all but makes them a 1E illusionist.)

I don't know Races of Stone. The only advantage the PHB gnome illusionist has over any of the other PHB races is the +1DC for illusion spells. Consider me unimpressed. With the exception of half-orcs all other races are just as qualified to become illusionists.

Their racial traits look suspiciously similar to dwarven racial traits. Which just reinforces the impression that gnomes are little more than funny little dwarves (and weak ones at that).

Did you have a look at MM5? The Jaebrin are a brilliant example for a race that fits its concept perfectly. They're truly the ultimate beguilers (which I consider a better match for the 1E illusionists, anyway)!

 

[satori01]

Gnomes ...shmones.....conceptually I could never get my head around what a Gnomish culture would be like. In 2e, FR-wise they were supposed to be wise. In Dragonlance they were Tinker gnomes, fun to read about, but never saw anyone play one.

In my years of D&D playing (going back to 1982), I have seen 1 person play a gnome.
Beyond Eberron, no official campaign has really showcased them as a pivotal race. No homebrew I have played in, has really used them...I know mostly in the campaigns I have ran I often leave the race out, (not always but even when I have made attempts to make gnomes a central race, no one plays one). In my D&D life I can say most of it I have never seen a gnome. I have seen more of the Underdark my name sounds like a sneeze...snerfnevlblin or whatever you call them that straight gnomes.

Many people would never play a little race, and the fact that in Fantasy literature, not a lot is done with Gnomes, just means that people in general just do not know what to do with them. When the movie Amelie and the traveling gnome from Travelosity is the best representation...houston there is a problem.

 

[Moggthegob]

Its because americans and peopel in general have no patience for the sort of tomfoolery gnomes can put out. I had gnome who would make you shat yourself and he did it all with a smile and grin. Put it simply. if yo udidnt think much of him or gnomes in general you had already lost. Its rifein what 3.x did with gnomes(divine prankster and Blade Bravo).gnomes use their Pr to thier advantage, also thier size.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I don't know Races of Stone. The only advantage the PHB gnome illusionist has over any of the other PHB races is the +1DC for illusion spells. Consider me unimpressed.

Do you play spellcasters? +1 DC (equal to a feat) is extremely useful, especially as it does stack with the feats other races have available, meaning gnomes retain their edge.

Their racial traits look suspiciously similar to dwarven racial traits.

Yes, the famous dwarf ability to speak with animals and cast magic spells innately ...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Its because americans and peopel in general have no patience for the sort of tomfoolery gnomes can put out. I had gnome who would make you shat yourself and he did it all with a smile and grin. Put it simply. if yo udidnt think much of him or gnomes in general you had already lost. Its rifein what 3.x did with gnomes(divine prankster and Blade Bravo).gnomes use their Pr to thier advantage, also thier size.

I beg of you, download Firefox and avail yourself of its built-in spell-checker. You are almost incomprehensible and I suspect you would get a lot more responses if people knew what the heck you were saying without putting in 10 minutes each post to do so.

 

[The Grackle]

I love gnomes and I play 'em all the time, yet I don't care if they're in the PHB or not. They'll still be around (somewhere) for the fans and still be ignored by people who hate them

 

[Jhaelen]

Do you play spellcasters? +1 DC (equal to a feat) is extremely useful, especially as it does stack with the feats other races have available, meaning gnomes retain their edge.

Well, having a +2 bonus to the relevant ability score adds exactly the same bonus. So gnomes have no edge over, e.g. gray elves.

Yes, the famous dwarf ability to speak with animals and cast magic spells innately ...

Well, obviously, I thought of others like the bonuses against goblinoids and giants

But this is getting tedious. Trying to convince a fan of a certain race that they really aren't required for the enjoyment of the game is a waste of time (think: drow - which I actively dislike, in contrast to gnomes, which I merely don't care for...). Let's just agree to disagree:

Gnomes (in their current incarnation) don't add anything to my game. They've never been used by any of my players and I've never been tempted to use one for an npc. They simlpy don't fill a niche that couldn't be filled just as well (if not better) by other races.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Well, having a +2 bonus to the relevant ability score adds exactly the same bonus. So gnomes have no edge over, e.g. gray elves.

Still not a PHB race.

Gnomes are the best illusionists in the PHB. We can go pull out the Monster Manual or a campaign setting and start throwing templates around all we wish, but gnomes are still the best illusionists in the PHB.

Well, obviously, I thought of others like the bonuses against goblinoids and giants

I'd hardly call those defining -- or even used nearly as often -- but sure, OK, those probably are just photocopied from the dwarves. I agree that was poor form.

Gnomes (in their current incarnation) don't add anything to my game. They've never been used by any of my players and I've never been tempted to use one for an npc.

OK. Your loss.

They simlpy don't fill a niche that couldn't be filled just as well (if not better) by other races.

Not from the PHB ...

 

[Nifft]

Actually, there is one thing about Gnomes which I really hate: the +2 to saves vs. Illusions can convey TOO MUCH METAGAME INFORMATION.

DM: As you strike the dragon, make a Will save!
Gnome: 15.
DM: Is that before your racial +2?
Everyone: Ah-hah!

... particularly with a clumsy DM like me.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Brennin Magalus]

It's not really that you see a need, but do you see a need for them to NOT be there?

Just because you don't like something, should it be removed rather than you simply ignoring it?

I think gnomes should go for reasons of parsimony, coherency, and to make way for worthier concepts.