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Going All Evil. Experiences?

Hussar

Legend
Wow, lots of great stuff here. Thanks guys.

Since this is a Savage Tide campaign, there are some very clear goals set very early in the campaign, so, hopefully I can avoid a lot of the "herding cats" syndrome that comes with playing selfish characters.

I think going the "film noir" route is probably the best. The characters, as I see them right now, are seriously misfits - read losers - and that does sit well with the noir genre. Add in the pulpiness of Savage Tide and I think we can really work with this. Think Jack Black's character from King Kong. That sort of thing.
 

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Melan

Explorer
Heist movies, Spaghetti Westerns. Film Noir. There's plenty of precedent for such amoral entertainment.

Evil doesn't always mean stupid. In history plenty of "evil" organizations got along fabulously and accomplished much killing and taking of stuff. Evil folks can have a pet parakeet, visit their grandmother every week, have friends.

This is a good observation. Our group has had success with evil characters and entire evil parties; the key was not going "psychotic madman evil". A character who is all evil all the time is boring; a less moral mercenary who might have a sense of humour and even a pleasant side is better.

Another issue was that this was a pretty low-power campaign. The characters were up against a mostly hostile environment (the Wilderlands), and had to stick together in their get rich schemes to succeed. They often had to flee and abandon ship, or regroup and try a different approach to their problems. There were casualties. This was a good motivation to focus the action.

Compared to more heroic campaigns, this one was very chaotic, full of sudden turns, reversals of fortunes (but also a few lucky turns: eventually, the characters found themselves the masters of a small village and some pretty lucrative salt mines after triggering a slave uprising for their selfish reasons). We had fun, and saw none of the "typical" problems cited here: neither slitting companions's throats, nor indulging in sick fantasies. Granted, the players were reasonably mature people - I say reasonably; there is both too little and too much maturity. :p Sometimes you need a bit of levity and chaos.

All in all, if you and your friends are down with the idea - go for it, it will work fine. :)
 

Melan

Explorer
I think going the "film noir" route is probably the best. The characters, as I see them right now, are seriously misfits - read losers - and that does sit well with the noir genre. Add in the pulpiness of Savage Tide and I think we can really work with this. Think Jack Black's character from King Kong. That sort of thing.
That's exactly how our characters were. Losers trying to work the system to their benefit, failing and succeeding in equal measure. Although the difference was that this was not an adventure path -- just spontaneously arising calamities. One problem with strictly defined adventures is that if losers lose, they can't really stay on course all that well. If you are open to a more open interpretation of the AP, though -- it might just work!
 

Dog Moon

Adventurer
We did this in SCAP, but we played SMART. We were slowly making our names in the Underworld and my character ruled one of the first Dungeons in the AP with a few minions/guardians that remained at the base. However, as we were helping save the city, we were becoming known as heroes to everyone.

A Paladin [NPC] ended up joining our party [gotta live alignment-hiding items] and we slowly and painfully converted her to evil. We did well in keeping our evil hidden and good pronounced, but the good was to gain a better foothold in the city and gain additional power.

Currently in a sort of evil campaign atm. No one's really done anything EXCEPTIONALLY evil, but right now we're helping an evil guild with some miscellaneous tasks.
 

Fenes

First Post
I think those players who play Lawful Good as Lawful Stupid are prone to play evil as "suicidal stupid".

While we do not use the criteria from the PHB for alignment (good and evil are much more extreme in our campaign, often limited to devils, angels, clerics and paladins, and most humans and other beings are considered neutral), my current campaigns would be called evil. It's not as we set out to play evil though, it just happened along the way by the choices of the characters. Convenience, power, hatred, vengenance - all sorts of motivations led to (in some cases literally) making deals with the devils, or sliding down the slippery slope towards evil. Of course there are heroic acts as well, and good deeds, and no "evil for evil's sake", and the characters do not consider themselves as evil - but usually "just doing what we need to do for the greater good of us all".

Of course, if they stuck to kill only "evil foes", and not "any foe" of their country/church, hate and persecute an evil humanoid race instead of "heretics" and not have slaves but serfs most would be classic "good D&D adventurers", and neutral even according to the PHB's strict rules.
 

Kyrail

First Post
Played in a full evil campaign for 12 levels, it ran smoothly and we were evil.

Evil with motivation. Power, greed, prestige. Not a one of us was a total psychopath, even if some of us did enjoy the thrill of domination and murder, even torture.

3/5 were worshipers of Hextor, so that was easier there, the other two Vecna. Lawful, Chaotic and Neutral Evil.

Perhaps I was the foundation that made the party work, though I may be giving myself too much credit.

I was a cleric of Hextor and the clear cut party leader, and maybe the most and least evil of all of them.

I would honestly wipe out an entire country (and did) if it meant I gained authority, power or standing in the church.

I would kill my enemies without remorse and torture if it served an end. However I had absolutely zero desire for pointless bloodshed. I didn't hate people so much as I saw them as a means to an end. I would ensure minor insults coolly if it meant I did not lose valued face, and let minor enemies free if they prooved no threat. I would even assist goodly powers if it had no negative effect on my interests.

I was calculating, and entirely without compassion, but only evil in the sense that people meant nothing to me.

The others were similar.

One was pure id with an axe. NE
One seeked eldritch power with alien beings, and lived only to exercise that power, the only chaotic evil party member.
One was essentially a church weapon, an assassin that followed orders and would even off party members if I asked it of her, though I never saw the need for that. NE
One seeked to hone his natural devil fueled abilities to rule when he gained enough power.

We never turned on each other save once. A member was leaving us, she was CN and decided she could not stand us anymore after I let an alien being eat a child in return for a teleport where we needed to go. I weighed the possibilities in my mind, and now that she was no longer a weapon for my cause, I could not let her go knowing what she knew about our task so we eliminated her.

Oddly enough that player rerolled the guild assassin that probably would of killed her own character if asked of her.
 

Dykstrav

Adventurer
To me, the single biggest problem with evil campaigns and evil characters is that everyone has a different idea of what "evil" is, or what it should be. I've actually seen alot of evil PCs over the years.

I've played in a Forgotten Realms game that was supposed to be "evil," but it didn't feel substantially different to me. We still fought orcs and Red Wizards and all the typical FR type of enemies. We once fought a party of good adventurers devoted to Mystra, but even so, it still felt like a regular old game with different wording on the character sheets. I did have some conflict with the other players, I played a cleric of Gargauth and was told to pull back my immersion in evil. I did was engage in some drug/alcohol abuse and seduced young virgins and the like and it rubbed the players the wrong way. I also required some justification for using healing magic on them (as an evil cleric, he spontaneously cast inflict spells, so it was a pain to prepare them). My cleric kept a few heals for himself, but there was tension with the players because their characters had to actually convince me that it was worth something to me to heal them. I don't think that the whole "evil" thing really sank in with that group from a roleplaying perspective--I certainly wouldn't be begging a strange, black-robed, devil-worshipping priest to cast spells on me when I'm wounded.

In a Greyhawk game in early 3E, we had an evil monk in our party. He was a streetfighter and a very brutal, "that which does not kill me, makes me stronger" type of character. It worked for him. My character was a chaotic good wizard that focused on illusions and charm spells, so we were polar opposites. Being pragmatic, I gladly let him go interpose himself between me and the monsters. We sniped at each other alot, but it worked, since we both realized our utility to one another and kept it at that. I thought it was immensely cool--the tension between our characters was both reasonable and added to the game. Ironically, we developed a stronger camaraderie when a paladin came after us (him for being evil and me for being chaotic).

I did an evil campaign in my homebrew in 3E and it worked reasonably well. The evil druid ravaged travelers with animals and worked to corrupt the town's drinking water and spread disease. The sorcerer used illusions and charms to cause a paladin's husband to commit infidelity, he ended up committing suicide rather than let his paladin wife find out. The party actually banded together and raided a dungeon--not to kill everything there and loot it, but to take it over for themselves. The party became lords of a dungeon in the marsh instead of nobles in a shining kingdom. It was fun and the players handled it well.

It seems most successful in an Oriental Adventures type of campaign, where people care alot more if you are lawful than whether you are good. I saw a lawful evil samurai that was upheld as the epitome of honor--he was willing to do anything that his daimyo required of him, which was percieved as being totally selfless. Soldiers under his command might die, but the prevalent attitude was that it was to be expected for a soldier's life. His cruelty and sadism were commented on, but it was feared rather than reviled. His discipline and grim determination were indeed the stuff of legend, at least in our Kara-Tur.
 

Ahglock

First Post
The one evil campaign ive been in that worked was where we were all lawful evil and members of the same organization.

In particular the scarlet brotherhood. Who was in charge was easy, he was the Monk. That is how there society was built, monks are in charge. we were basically a military special forces team out in the field. We received missions through communications, and executed our orders under the direction of our leader.

while the campaign worked there is something creepy about playing the nazis of the greyhawk world.
 

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