Pathfinder 1E (Golarion) Cannons?

[DragonLancer]

In the campaign setting there are some examples of firearms in the equipment section and says such items are rare. However, after recently reading the Sargava the Lost Colony sourcebook and how the pirates keep the Chelish navy at bay I wondered do actual cannons exist, specifically for naval engagements. Most ships shown in PF materials appear to be galleons and more renaissence looking vessels and I can't see them being outfitted with catapults or ballistae.

Thoughts?

 

[ffanxii4ever]

Well, they aren't common that's for sure, but Alkenstar has made a 90 inch bore cannon for Taldor...

So the technology for them definitely exists, but they would not be common. But I can definitely see some ships on Golarion's seas having a cannon or two; heck, one of the GameMastery Flip-Mats has cannons on the map.

 

[DragonLancer]

Well, they aren't common that's for sure, but Alkenstar has made a 90 inch bore cannon for Taldor...

Oohh.. I had forgotten about that. Thanks for the reminder.

So the technology for them definitely exists, but they would not be common. But I can definitely see some ships on Golarion's seas having a cannon or two; heck, one of the GameMastery Flip-Mats has cannons on the map.

Thanks muchly. That's made plotting my next campaign much easier.

 

[Azmyth]

Alkenstar has developed the technology resulting from the absence of magic. It (their tech) doesn't work reliably or with longevity once you take it from their borders.

"But I can definitely see some ships on Golarion's seas having a cannon or two; heck, one of the GameMastery Flip-Mats has cannons on the map."

I wouldn't read too much into one artist's interpretation that was made onto a Flip Map. It's not canon. Nyuk-nyuk!

I discussed ship to ship warfare with Josh Frost at GenCon. Referencing the graveyard of Naval battles that have happened outside the harbors of Absalom. They use balista and catapult, some with specialized shot. An example being 'mast-breaker'. They also use ramming and boarding techniques. But at this stage of Golarion's developement, no one has gun power based weapons on ships (until you put them there!).

 

[DragonLancer]

Ah, ok. I'm going to have to reconsider my ideas then as I want to remain true to the setting.

Basically my players have asked that the new campaign not have a big world shaking campaign arc. They want something more on a character level rather than an epic level. They have previously asked about a pirates style game so I'm thinking of a campaign based around hunting down a pirate legacy, buried treasure and hiking through dinosaur infested jungle to find ancient ruins and such.

I think the problem in my mind is that with the style and more modern design of the ships shown in the artwork of the PF material, I have a hard time imagining that they still use ballistae and catapults. It's not a major concern, it just changes how I handle ship engagements.

 

[Voadam]

Catapults on ships always seemed iffy to me. A catapult seems a lot harder to change the range on then a canon where you can just raise or lower the canon barrel.

Rams and boarding however go back as far as major naval trading. Julius Caesar was captured and ransomed by pirates and there were no cannons then. There are plenty of Ulfen vikings in the northwest of Golarion not to mention the explicitly pirate isles and the Shackles. Go with more spells and boarding action and it should feel right for D&D pirates IMO.

Btw, Paizo's latest AP is all about Pirate treasure and serpentfolk in an unexplored jungle with a pirate faction (among others) competing with the PCs to get the loot first.

I don't remember the Arkenstar tech breaking down outside of Arkenstar. When I read the Arkenstar entry I remember wanting to change the fluff to be the strong alchemy skills of the former wizards in a now non magic area being employed instead of simply being an unexplained quick high tech development in a magic dead area.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

As a general rule, catapults are a bad idea on ship - even minor swells would make aim near impossible. Trebuchet would be worse.

Ballista... the horizontal bow would be prone to fouling rigging, but a vertical bow, such as the ones for the Games Workshop Dark Elves or the Mantic Elves might be a good way around this. I can also picture ballista fired grapnels to assist with boarding actions - very important for pirates, possibly more so than cannon. A cannonade is more likely to sink the enemy, when what you want to do is pillage them.

Until cannon the most common weaponry for ships was archers - thus the fore and stern castles, places for archers to stand.

The Auld Grump

 

[James Jacobs]

There are indeed firearms and cannons in Golarion, but the way they're presented in the current (and now out of print) Campaign Setting Hardcover is undergoing some significant revision. Basically, the arrival of guns and gunpowder and firearms on Golarion is changing from being a 4,000 some year fact of life to something that's much more recent. Firearms exist, but they're generally more difficult and more dangerous to make than magic items, and the secrets to their creation are mostly held by the gunsmiths of the duchy of Alkenstar—and they've had that knowledge for only about a hundred years or so. This puts Golarion, perhaps, on the cusp of entering a new age where firearms could become much more widespread... or perhaps at the cusp of an age where firearms wither out and fade into obscurity as they're overshadowed by magic. By presenting firearms in this manner, we basically enable GMs with the ability to take either direction in their own games, since we know that not everyone wants firearms to be commonplace in their games.

 

[DragonLancer]

There are indeed firearms and cannons in Golarion, but the way they're presented in the current (and now out of print) Campaign Setting Hardcover is undergoing some significant revision.

Does this mean that there is a new version of the book in the pipeline? Or should I keep trying to hunt it down?

 

[IronWolf]

Does this mean that there is a new version of the book in the pipeline? Or should I keep trying to hunt it down?

Yes, there is a new version on its way with a current expected date of 2/11:

Pathfinder Campaign Setting: World Guide—The Inner Sea