Good necromancer ideas

[Beowolf]

im thinking of making a necromancer build for my dm's campain as a backup pc.
id like to try the whole undead minions thing and have a few ideas for that but i am unsure of the best path to take, especially when restricted by the good alignment. for example while trying to make a good cleric necro i found i cant cast animate undead even with wee jas as patron. im trying to keep as much to the rules so the dm will have less problems with the pc.

oh and i guess this is assuming the idea that creating undead isnt inherently evil, at least when it comes to mindless undead. but i am looking for the best i can get.

really any ideas, examples, good monster sourses, spells, prcs, feats etc. open thread if it comes to it.

 

[Kurashu]

Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) + Tombtainted Soul (Libris Mortis) + Extra Turning

Plus you can use divine feats. Raid Libris Mortis for monsters.

Once you get some undead under your belt and feel like you can take a hit to your turning ability, Palemaster is a good PrC to take up. I hear Arcane Diciple is a good feat as well.

I don't know how good it is, but the Necrocranate (MoI) is a zombie focused Incarnum user.

 

[Darklone]

Get the UA version of a necro familiar: A skeleton bodyguard.

Check out the Libris Mortis feats and ask your DM whether these benefits apply to the familiar as well (IMHO they should). Get Summon undead spells.

Arcane Disciple for the Undeath domain, you'll need Desecrate.

 

[Li Shenron]

oh and i guess this is assuming the idea that creating undead isnt inherently evil, at least when it comes to mindless undead. but i am looking for the best i can get.

Not something I agree with, but if this is fine for your DM and the rest of the group, then all you have to do is remove "Evil" from the spells you want to use, and summon/create undead which are either Good (there are some good undead out there I'm sure, such as certain ghosts and revenant) or at least Neutral (could be the case for mindless undead). But you need house rules to do this change, otherwise it'd be difficult to stick with the RAW.

 

[bestone]

(a little off topic, but slightly relevant)

Its never been accepted in my gaming group, that evil clerics cant be healers, all and all it would really depend on the campaign/gods. I mean, you could argue that evil things are out there to harm, and not to help, but this isnt an entirely accurate statement. IF you consider the fact that EVIL doesnt mean pure evil (as there is lawful neutral and chaotic evil) then you know, there are varying degree's to such. You can have a evil tyrranical nation hell bent on the destruction of thier enemies, but value thier own. Or take a look at the knight class, you can even have honourable Evil people....... so like i was saying, we never take it that, just because conventional beliefs/understandings suggest as such, it doesnt mean that has to be so

Our dm allows evil healers (and as with most things, as long as you come up with a good fluffly reason why you are such

Now on to the true point, in saying all this, i cant entirely see why you couldnt have some reason why your raising of dead isnt an evil act

It could be something as simple as you are from a barbaric culture that firmly believes that once you are dead your soul leaves your body, and the body is nothing but a left over wastefull byproduct. The culture doesnt have to be bad, and can even be good (tho i'd probably see it more neutral than good). But you can say, they dont abhore the use of the dead, to fight of thier enemies, infact they may believe that this gives the once dead person a use, and honours thier memory. For to rise up again and to be able to battle ones enemies once more, may be a great and heroic deed.

*and please dont flame, i took all of 2 minutes to dredge that up, it was just a suggestion, if i were to do something l ike that myself, it would of course, be a lot more in detail, and a lot more plausible*

Thus being said, choose cleric necro, and take libris mortis domains... mmmmm undeath and deathbound

 

[Darklone]

Hmm. I've never had a problem with an evil cleric preparing Cure spells. Why shouldn't he heal himself to life and fight another day? I am not aware of anything in the rules forbidding that.

 

[Elemental]

oh and i guess this is assuming the idea that creating undead isnt inherently evil, at least when it comes to mindless undead. but i am looking for the best i can get.

really any ideas, examples, good monster sourses, spells, prcs, feats etc. open thread if it comes to it.

According to the Animate Dead spell, it is evil, but that doesn't make much sense. Alignment shouldn't be applied to a creature with no intelligence. It might be more comfortable for the other party members if only unintelligent and non-humanoid creatures get made into undead. Have your undead help out in combat, especially aiding doubtful PC's. Argue that using skeletons and zombies is more humane--they can be sent into situations (underwater, a trap-filled corridor, triggering an ambush) where sending a living being would be impossible or unethical.

This is one of those things that can be very cool to play out, rather than slapping an absolute "EVIL!" sticker on and not going near it.

Also, you don't have to do the "haggard, gaunt man in black" cliche for your image. Any profession familiar with life and death could progress into necromancy--how about a former farmer, midwife or physician? A necromancer could be a happy, optimistic person, whose awareness of the fragility of life makes them want to live it to the full.


Mechanically:

Don't bother with zombies, unless you really want something with a fly speed. For skeleton creation, keep an eye out for anything with lots of primary natural attacks or with the fire subtype. Dragons, Fire Giants, Hydras and Chimeras are especially good for this purpose.

There are things your undead can do even if they can't hit a high AC target. Flanking, bull rushing, tripping, grappling, disarming and Aid Another are all options--even getting the enemy to waste AoO's on them is useful. When you have money to spare, skeletons with alchemical items can make excellent grenadiers.

Dread Necromancer is an excellent class for a necromancer, as mentioned before. It's in Heroes of Horror. Has the best bits of cleric and wizard, balanced by being more tightly focused. Very cool, and very flavourful.

 

[bestone]

Hmm. I've never had a problem with an evil cleric preparing Cure spells. Why shouldn't he heal himself to life and fight another day? I am not aware of anything in the rules forbidding that.

I meant as a spontaneous caster, cure specialized, my bad

 

[Darklone]

I meant as a spontaneous caster, cure specialized, my bad

Well, that's not like the rules, but I agree with your reasoning.

 

[Beowolf]

ok just to clarify here, im going for a good alignment necromancer. and as mentioned going for the undead master archtype, lots o' minions etc.
so far i think i can get around the animate dead is an evil spell thing. but only the whole animateing is evil thing, the spell itself will still be evil for clerics thus off limits for good ones. i have a decent idea/ background thing along the line of what bestone was saying, just a backstory that fits into the campain that provides a good excuse. plus my dm is flexable so it shouldnt be a problem.

im not to sure of higher up create undead spells scince the only undead available to create are pretty much just inherently evil ones save for a couple exceptions. so any sourses of alternate undead would be much appreaciated. i know about the ebberon deathless but any specific books for them and other good undead? libris mortis has some feats /good domains but im going with the wizard because the cleric still cant cast alignment opposed spells whereas the wizard isnt iherently restricted. ( though i guess ill try to get around that sometime in the future, just small steps for now)

some good ideas for basic stratagy ,good!!
oh and the skel familier is perfect, thanks i was thinking about it but i forgot what book it was in.

thanks to all so far.