Good Way to Handle Child Prodigies?

[HoboGod]

So, as a DM, I try to encourage as much freedom to role play as possible. If one of my players want to play a nymph without the level adjustment, I let them modify the flavor text of the star elf class and they have to seduce people through diplomacy checks. Now, a couple of my players have been showing interest in playing children. I want to encourage the idea, but how would I go about it?

At first, I figured I would just apply the effects half the effects of the reduce person spell and put the aging tables in reverse. A child would effectively be one size smaller and have -1 Str, +3 Dex, +1 Con, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha. A child is size medium, but may use size small weapons without penalty. Their size modifier remains +0, but their special size modifier for grapple, bullrush, trip, etc becomes -4 and their hide modifier becomes +4. Their abilities change as follows: +2 Dex, +1 Con, -1 Int, -1 Wis, -1 Cha. But does that sound fair? Any other ways I can create a LA +0 child template?

EDIT: In retrospect, this seems very favorable to rogues. While fitting of children, I might wish to alter this

 

[chando]

My philosophy is that the simpler, the better.
Just reduce the size and the speed one step. A human would be small and have a 20ft speed. If you really wanted to, you could also add a STR-2 DEX+2 to the original race modifiers, but that would prevent ocasionally warrior types childs.

 

[Celebrim]

Children are inherently hard to do mechanically. You always have to give up something.

The problem is made harder than it needs to be in stock D20 because size small is an advantage in that its disadvantages are much smaller than its advantages. If you straight up take a race and make it smaller, it gets better under RAW D&D. If that's what being a 'child' means, everyone will want to be one.

There are two basic models of children mechanically. Neither is going to be fully satifying. The realistic model of children is that being a child is a huge disadvantage mechanically modelled by large penalties in ability. In the realistic model, being a child grants you large penalties and nothing in exchange. As the campaign advances, these penalties begin to be ammelorated on their own as the child ages into an adult and acquires the abilities you'd expect of an adult member of their race. The end result is an adult character who has the same abilities that they would have if they started as an adult. The problem with the realistic model is that there is absolutely no reason to play a child. The realistic model strongly discourages children as adventurers.

The other basic model is a gamist model. In the gamist model 'child' is a template that is permenently applied to the character during character creation. It has various benefits and advantages that taken as a whole balance out, either inherently within the template or (if the template is on the whole a net disadvantage) because taking the template allows the player to choose some offsetting advantage. Under the gamist model, as the campaign advances the passing of time has no effect on the abilities of the character. Instead, the normal progress of character advancement is assumed to represent at least in part the gradual aging and maturation of the character. If the character 'grows up' mechanically this has no effect on the character. It's just flavor.

As for your particular rules suggestion, I think that at minimum your child template should apply the same standard modification modifying the size of an NPC does. That is, make them smaller size AND STR -4, CON -4, DEX +2. This unbalanced stat adjustment is critical because smaller size must be seen without unbalanced stat adjustment as a pure win. Intellectual modifiers are realistic, but in my opinion unnecessary.

 

[ValhallaGH]

I'd advise against making child characters Small. Humans ages 11 and up are generally above 4 feet tall, which seems to be the height cutoff (more or less) for Size Small. About the beginning of adolescence (12-13, when I'd expect a child prodigy to actually start adventuring), the average kid is around 5 feet tall. That's big enough that I'd say they were medium, although they may be a bit weak and awkward due to unfinished and unaccustomed growth effects. But that, as Celebrim says, can be purely flavor text.
Unless we're talking about prepubescent characters (ages 5 to 10), there's no real need to make it more than flavor text They're light and short, but not necessarily shorter or lighter than other PCs.
Being young doesn't mean being stupid, weak, unhealthy, or lacking charm, it just means that the person is probably naive and ignorant (both correctable conditions). In the case of a prodigy, I'd find them more likely to be informed than a typical adventurer; those kids are inquisitive and thoughtful at every stage of their lives (for a refresher on such mentalities, [re]read Ender's Game).

Good luck.

 

[HoboGod]

Very good points all around. Simplicity should be the focus, so this presents itself to be a problem.

I see how size small might be both unwise and inaccurate. In reality, creating a child template is probably closer to a half-giant teetering between two size categories. I think I'll edit my original post to reflect these bits of advice. I don't wish to hinder my players for playing younger than adults, just as the PHB doesn't hinder players for playing older than adults, that's ultimately my goal.

 

[Yalım]

No +/- 1's on stats. That's never a good idea. Make them medium (uses weapons one category smaller, though, and give them size benefits like all small creatures except for AC and attack bonuses) and hand them -2 to all stats, because children are underdeveloped in ALL ways (growing up doesn't decrease your dexterity and constitution, it increases them).

Then hand them a bonus feat or something (because they're prodigies) and a few abilities from a small list, including:
- +something to saves
- immunity to a certain type(s) of damage
- immunity to a certain condition(s)
- +something ridiculous to a certain skill (like perform, since child prodigies usually do a lot of that)
- Some SLAs

You could forsake the bonus and the extra ability/abilities to give them something like +6 to one stat (the original -2, with 6 added, makes for +4) because that's a "prodigy" thing to do. But that sounds like something for munchkins, and would mean that everybody is going to play a gray elf child with 24 Int.

 

[HoboGod]

First of all, thanks for you input.

No +/- 1's on stats. That's never a good idea.

It seems to work with advancing to middle age. I've never come across any serious problems with it. Please elaborate on how this could be troublesome.

(growing up doesn't decrease your dexterity and constitution, it increases them).

As a child, I could totally do cartwheels and catch 20 fireflies in a night. As an adult, I fail miserably. As a child, I could run home from school every day and would pounce back from any illness I caught in less than a week. As an adult, it hurts to run that long and it takes me months to get over a simple cough. I don't know about you, but I started noticing a decline in dexterity and constitution when I entered high school.

 

[Grithfang]

As an adult, it hurts to run that long and it takes me months to get over a simple cough. I don't know about you, but I started noticing a decline in dexterity and constitution when I entered high school.

That probably has more to do with lifestyle than anything else.

I have run child adventures in 1st edition. I did do stat adjustment, my notes are put away but a quick conversion from memory would be such:



child 8-12
Small Human HD 1d4-3 (1 hp), Str -4, Dex +1, Wis -4

• Human child base land speed is 20 feet.
• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• Level Limit: Due to their immature understanding of the world a child cannot advance higher than 2nd level.
• Limited Training: Due to their early entry into the real world a human child has not gained the flexibility of extra skill points.

The "missing" child bonus skill points can be earned at a cost of 100xp times level per point in lieu of advancement. All bonus skill points not earned through experience point buy are retroactively granted when the child becomes a teen regardless.


Teen 13 (roll 1d4 for duration)
Medium Human HD 1d6 (3 hp), Str -2, Wis -2

• 1 extra feat at 1st level.
• Level Limit: Due to their immature understanding of the world a teen cannot advance higher than 5th level.
• 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level.

A child or teen adventuring is starting at a disadvantage. Class HD override racial HD.

This is entirely from the hip but results in a balanced character later.

 

[HoboGod]

That probably has more to do with lifestyle than anything else.

Then explain why there are so many Olympic gymnasts under 16 years old.

Thank you for your version of a child, however, I don't wish to punish my players. I do not mind having a child reach 20th level in any of my campaigns and feel there isn't necessarily a great disadvantage to be a child instead of adult (even in real life.) Many suppositions of a child's speed and strength can be attributed to the size of their limbs. Many suppositions of a child's intellectual capacity can be attributed to the system in which they've been educated. I don't want to tell my players they'll be laughable useless to play a child variant just as I would never tell a child they're laughable useless for being a child.

 

[Grithfang]

That probably has more to do with lifestyle than anything else.

Then explain why there are so many Olympic gymnasts under 16 years old.

Olympic gymnasts? Constant training and exercise isn't a lifestyle?

I was giving a conversion from my 1st edition house rule on child and teen characters, 3rd/3.5 has no level caps so of course they are not RAW.

. . . and feel there isn't necessarily a great disadvantage to be a child instead of adult (even in real life.)

It depends on what you mean by disadvantaged. Being an immature child (physically) means that the added hormones of adolescence and adulthood are not present.

Influence of puberty on muscle development at the forearm -- Neu et al. 283 (1): E103 -- AJP - Endocrinology and Metabolism

In conclusion, this study suggests that the increase in maximal isometric grip force during childhood and adolescence has two components. The first is muscle growth, which takes a gender-specific course during puberty, indicating that it is influenced by hormonal changes. The second is an increase in grip force per muscle CSA, which is similar in both genders and thus appears to be independent of sex hormones.

Being a physically immature child mean a smaller strength to muscle ratio. The same applies to the immature brain, especially judgment (wisdom) related items:

that the teenager’s brain is different than the adult brain . . . The brain is still developing during the teen years Dr. Jay Giedd of the NIMH has reported that brain “maturation . . . continues into the teen years and even into the 20’s. . . .Teens also differ from adults in their ability to read and understand emotions in the faces of others . . . Frontal lobe—self-control, judgment, emotional regulation; restructured in teen years

I stand by original stat penalties.

I admit I am citing science in a fantasy forum, and your game is your own. The fact is as a child and teen, you are disadvantaged by biology. Doesn't mean it wasn't fun for me to have been either.