GR DC & Etc.

[Mark]

Does the DC license firmly move GR into the top tier of RPG publishers? Who else, besides Paizo and WotC, is in the top tier at this point?

 

[Steel_Wind]

If the test for "top tier" is licensed setting of any consequence, is anybody in the biz aggressively licensing other than Green Ronin? Probably not.

FWIW, I don't think that licensing Star Trek or Lord of the Rings ever made Decipher a "top tier" company. It takes more than that.

I think the answer is one which is ultimately based upon sales and staying power of the product line: in short, it is a matter of "we'll see".

FWIW, I don't think Mayfair was ever in the "top tier" when they were publishing DC Heroes. TSR never had that success with Marvel Super Heroes game either (though I don't think they tried nearly as hard as they should have). Still, if TSR had succeeded with Marvel, they (or WotC) would still be publishing it, imo.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles RPG back in the day? Same result.

Comic book RPGs have never been top tier games, mainly, im my opinion, as they have never been able to develop a style of play which appeals to the type of player who likes treasure+leveling in their games -- while at the same time remaining true to their fanbase and premise.

That does not make M+M, Marvel Super Heroes, DC Heroes, Champions, or V&V or any of the many variants thereof over the last thirty years bad games -- it just means that the audience they appeal to is a subset of the broader RPG hobby audience (which mainly means D&D players) as a whole.

It would be nice to see how possible it is to intregrate DC Clix into Mutants and Masterminds 3rd ed in a way to make the game appeal to the D&D crowd. (If they miss that opportunity in an effort to remain true to the comic book genre, it will be a commercial mistake, imo. But not being the mftrs of DC Clix, their motive is not strong as it needs to be, imo.

We'll see.

 

[Relique du Madde]

Top tier is a funny concept. IMO it could be applied to various segments within an industry as well as the industry as a whole.

Within the SUPERS rpg set, M&M is a top tier product since it's looked as being CHAMPIONS/HERO's rival/equal/substitute.

Within the d20 market, GR is top teir since it;s one of the big name 3rd Party companies, won several awards, and then created an iconic setting/adventure (Freeport).

Within the General RPG market, time will tell how M&M 3.x will turn out. If its becomes such a success that its able to out generic True20 to the point where GR kills that line for good, and every d20 player starts using M&M for everything that isn't fantasy THEN I will consider them a top tier company within the general market.

SNIP!

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles[/I] RPG back in the day? Same result0.

Funny because Palladium WAS a top tier RPG company, up until sometime after 2000. Sadly, the internet did them in..

 

[Steel_Wind]

Funny because Palladium WAS a top tier RPG company, up until sometime after 2000. Sadly, the internet did them in..

I don't think piracy "did in" Palladium, though I do agree with you that it certainly hurt.

I think what "did in" Palladium is the same thing that harmed GURPS and had previously killed off Rolemadter in the late 90s (though the bankruptcy of ICE had more to do with their distributors, their CCG and the shock wave of TSR's "printer problems").

All of these systems arose as a reaction to 1st editon AD&D and continued to find their niche throught the 2nd Ed era. The churning of gamers out of the TSR fold and into the customers of ICE, SJ Games and Palladium was part of a cycle of reactions to the AD&D game system that did not model skills well and did not attempt to be "simulationist" in many aspects of its design -- at least to the degree that fans of those games preferred.

Ultimately, through bloat, each of them became unwieldy and the original impetus that lead to the games being popular fell out of fashion.

What 3.xx set out to do was to attract those gamers who had left D&D during the 1st and 2nd ed years to "come back" to the game. It succeeded at that -- and brilliantly. And so many RM, GURPS and Palladium players are now D&D players again... and some are now Pathfinder players, too. (And some stuck with GURPS, RM and Palladium or RIFTS, too.)

Now we have Pathfinder as the current "reaction" to the current edition of D&D. People speak of the "Edition Wars" as if it was something new. rec.games.frpg.advocacy was around long before 3.xx was even thought of. It's an argument almost as old as the game itself. *shrug*

 

[Anton85]

Lets not list the reasons Palladium failed. There simply is not enough space on the internet to contain all the reasons.

 

[Treebore]

"Top tier" is a matter of perspective to each person. Its the company who produces the products they like and treats them the way they like. So for some FFG is one of their "top tier" companies, maybe even the only company that matters to them.

So for my perspective GR has been a "top tier" company for years, exceptional customer service, great product lines (M&M, True 20 and now Dragon Age), and I have several other "top tier" companies, because I buy from them regularly, Mongoose, Paizo, Troll Lord Games and Goodman.

So for me WOTC is a "low tier" gaming company, because I hardly ever buy anything from them. Same with White Wolf.

 

[Crothian]

DC has the potential to levitate Green Ronin greatly but that can't happen till the books are published and flying off the shelves.

 

[Nahat Anoj]

I think in terms of prestige, the DC license puts GR in the same realm as Games Workshop or Paizo (if they weren't there already). It remains to be seen if DC Adventures nets lots of money for GR, because while virtually all the gamers I know like comics, IMO I don't think as many comic fans like gaming all that much. I still think the game will do well, though.

In any case, GR has gained some serious geek cred.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Lots of rpg companies have had licenses over the years.

ICE - Middle-Earth
Victory Games - James Bond
Chaosium - Cthulhu, Elric, Ringworld
Mayfair - DC
West End Games - Star Wars, DC
TSR - Marvel, Conan, Indiana Jones
WotC - Star Wars
Guardians of Order - Song of Ice and Fire, The Authority, and lots of anime licenses including Sailor Moon
Green Ronin - Song of Ice and Fire, Dragon Age, DC.

Are they all top tier? The DC license is particularly promiscuous, having been with three different companies now. She ain't no catch.

 

[Klaus]

If the test for "top tier" is licensed setting of any consequence, is anybody in the biz aggressively licensing other than Green Ronin? Probably not.

Margaret Weis Productions puts out licensed RPGs for Serenity, Supernatural and Smallville, just off the top o' me head.