Grapple & Earth Glide

[Merova]

Hi all!

When an earth elemental is in a grapple, can it move an opponent into stone or dirt through the use of its "earth glide" extraordinary ability? Here are the relevant pieces of the SRD:

Earth Glide (Ex): An earth elemental can glide through stone, dirt, or almost any other sort of earth except metal as easily as a fish swims through water. Its burrowing leaves behind no tunnel or hole, nor does it create any ripple or other signs of its presence.

Move: You can move half your speed (bringing all others engaged in the grapple with you) by winning an opposed grapple check. This requires a standard action, and you must beat all the other individual check results to move the grapple.

I'm of the opinion that an earth elemental can't use earth glide to move itself and its opponent into stone because, while it can legitimately travel through the material, the opponent may not have the earth glide ability. However, a flying or swimming creature can grapple and move a creature that does not possess those movement types, but usually the medium through which the movement occurs is not typically a barrier to movement. The RAW doesn't seem to place a specific limitation on the movement use of grapple, so I don't know if my opinion stands up to hardcore rules adjudication.

In any case, I'm interested in some feedback. Thanks.

-Olivia

 

[frankthedm]

The elemental can glide, the victim can't. Victim can't go through the surface. The elemetal inadvertantly leaves grapple.

Earth elementals don't get to entomb thier foes alive. Maybe after the victim is dead, but the earth glide abilitiy might not even work on gear.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I am playing a Druid right now and I took the elemental companion option presented in Complete Arcane to get an earth elemental companion instead of an animal companion. I'm also very curious whether it can take things with it while earth gliding. I would love to put armor on it, for example.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think by RAW the Earth Elemental should be able to move and drag its opponent into the ground. Since there is nothing to stop a Kraken from grappling a sailer and dragging him off to death in the briny deep... or the gargoyle stepping off a balcony into the air...

Of course, this is a significant power-up, so I would counter the increase in CR by forcing a grapple check when moving through normally impassable substances, if the elemental loses this check the opponent would get 'dropped' outside of the ground. The opponent would get a bonus to this check of at least +4 {stable}, probably a +8... but that HR territory.
{Being a 'Poster C' again... oh well }

 

[Salthorae]

I think by RAW the Earth Elemental should be able to move and drag its opponent into the ground. Since there is nothing to stop a Kraken from grappling a sailer and dragging him off to death in the briny deep... or the gargoyle stepping off a balcony into the air...

I would have to disagree that these are relevant analogues. The Sailor and the gargoyle can easily enter either the water or fly through the air without an Extraordinary ability such as "Earth Glide (Ex)".

A sailor is not going to suddenly find hiimself sinking into the earth unless he steps into a) a pit or b) quicksand. The same sailor however who jumps off the pier is going to find himself in the water quite easily, so too if he stepped off a cliff would he be falling through the air.

I would say that Earth Elementals can't take living/animate/undead creatures with them on an Earth Glide, unless the other creature also has the Earth Glide Ex ability. As for inanimates/objects/corpses... that is another can of worms. I could see that easily being broken too, but would allow it more readily.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'd rule that as the Earth Elemental submerges back into the ground, it does not lose its grapple on its foe, but rather starts crushing its foe between the ground and its arms...like a kraken dragging a sailor through a hole that is just big enough to get a tentacle through empty, but slightly too small to get the tentacle through while grasping a tasty mortal...errr...morsel.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I would say that Earth Elementals can't take living/animate/undead creatures with them on an Earth Glide, unless the other creature also has the Earth Glide Ex ability.

There's precedent for it in literature, of coure. Relg the Ulgo takes Silk with him on an Earth Glide in The Belgariad, for example.

-Hyp.

 

[Legildur]

And the Grey Mouser 'sinks' underground following a curse.

 

[Tonguez]

I used the trick to cause extra damage to the victim

ie reach out of a wall and grapple your victim, step back into the wall (earth glide) and get a free Slam attack as your victims body is crushed against the impassable wall...

 

[gavagai]

I am playing a Druid right now and I took the elemental companion option presented in Complete Arcane to get an earth elemental companion instead of an animal companion. I'm also very curious whether it can take things with it while earth gliding. I would love to put armor on it, for example.

I am sure ghosttouch armor would do the trick, no?