Grappling - Help Please

[Skaros]

1. On the initial attempt to hold the opponent (after a successful touch attack to grab him), can the opponent use his escape artist skill to oppose it instead of STR + BAB + Size Mod ?

The SRD says:

Step 2: Hold:
Make an opposed grapple check. If the character succeeds, the character has started the grapple, and the character deals damage to the target as if with an unarmed strike.

The only place in the Grapple description that escape artist is mentioned is as an option once you are already in the middle of a grapple:

Wriggle Free: A character can make an Escape Artist check (opposed by a character's opponent's grapple check) to get out of a grapple or out of being pinned (so that the character is just being grappled). Doing so counts as a standard action; if a character escapes a grapple, the character can also move in the same round.

Under the escape artist skill, it says this:

Grappler: The character can make an Escape Artist check opposed by the enemy's grapple check to get out of a grapple or out of a pinned condition (so that the character is just being grappled). Doing so is a standard action, so if the character escapes the grapple the character can move in the same round. See "Wriggle Free" under Other Grappling Options.

All of this appears to point towards escape artist only being usable as a standard action taken by the person who is already grappling, not as a means of avoiding the "hold" portion of the initial grapple attempt.

I don't have access to the FAQ from work...is this clarified there? Anyone have any extra insight or references?

The above quotes are taken from the SRD.

Skaros

 

[DonAdam]

I think you've got it right.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

i've noticed that this comes in very handy for throttling generic, off-the-shelf bards that sketch their companions gruesome deaths and tell party secrets at the drop of a hat.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

character one - bard
character two - bard
character three - barbarian (multiclassed to bard)
character four - bard

 

[Skaros]

Thanks DonAdam.

i've noticed that this comes in very handy for throttling generic, off-the-shelf bards that sketch their companions gruesome deaths and tell party secrets at the drop of a hat.

I noticed that myself...in fact my earth genasi 22 strength smacka-downa monk will be looking for opportunities to shake up said bard tonight as well.

Anyone out there have a different rule or ruling that indicates my assessment is wrong? Looks fairly clear as is.

Skaros

 

[Skaros]

character one - bard
character two - bard
character three - barbarian (multiclassed to bard)
character four - bard

Round 1: cast haste, cast a defensive spell.
Round 2: Ignore the fact we are outnumbered, surrounded, and being approached by obviously evil and hostile foes. Cast fly. Fly up and attempt to parlay with the leader, giving the enemny time to better their position.
Round 3: Equivocate after negotiation was cut short by the more combat savvy members who could see the very obvious writing on the wall. Fire an arrow.
Round 4: (a comrade is dead, the monsters are half dead) Fire a couple of arrows.
Round 5: Pause to sketch some of the more interesting monsters, despite a major enemy left on the field that is preparing to launch another attack.
Round 6: Get throttled by an angry earth genasi comrade.

Skaros

 

[Rhu-fus]

yup. pretty close. Honestly if he did something like that while Rho-fus is in the game. He'll get a throttling or two.

"Hold my axe"

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

when surrounded, split the party. one combat focused cleric runs to the frontline to turn undead at range, the other just runs, ignoring the large necromantic golems purposely placed rounds away & hoarding her searing light spells. bard ignores all spell use after 2nd round, gets overwhelmed and crushed by golems.

assault golems enjoy several rounds of carnage as pcs switch focus from destroying one of the four constructs to killing widdle goblins. a golem with 3 hps obliterates the combat cleric. the other cleric never casts a healing spell on anyone other than herself. the fighter charges on her horse - through a swamp - and get her mount killed, her teeth knocked out and her ass in the grass on an aoo.

man, it was something. i got to kill that bard though.

tee hee.

 

[Rhu-fus]

Yea, I think we all learned a really great lesson last night. We need to work on our combat tactics. I should have pulled back a little or wait for everyone to back me up. I broke the number seven rule of engagement. Never let your enemy behind you. But, at least you killed the bard.

First...find yourself surrounded by 150 mutated goblins, four very large undead constructs with goblin archers on their back and 5 acolytes surrounding a goblin shamen doing some sort of voodoo. GO!

Rhu-fus-GRRRR...Go for the undead. They're going to be nasty *casts rec.*

bard-Umm I cast haste and cast harmony.

Rhu-fus- Haste me you perfumed fopp-Grrrrr-I'm bigger than you are, I'm higher on the food chain..GET IN MY BELLY!!!

I know. I little creative licence. Sounds funnier though.

 

[Antikinesis]

Sean K. Reynolds (a name that should be familiar to all D&D'ers) has done an excellent grappling write-up on his web site:
www.seankreynolds.com/rpgfiles/misc/grappling.html

He also mentions his opinion on using Escape Artist checks to oppose any grapple attempts on a character. (It's not by-the-rules, but I believe he's for it.)

HTH.

-AK