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Grappling - I think this is easy?

the_bruiser

First Post
If I understand 3.0 grappling correctly:

General rules:
• Trying provokes an AOO – if AOO works, grapple fails.
• Make a touch attack to initiate the grapple.
• Make opposed attack rolls on BAB + STR + size modifier. If successful, opponent is held.
• While grappling, you lose DEX bonuses to all other opponents.


With a successful opposed roll:
• Do subdual damage to your opponent with unarmed attack, –4 if attempting to do normal damage.
• Pin the opponent, holding him immobile for one round. While pinning, other opponents get +4 against you.
• Break a pin that an opponent has over an ally.
• Escape from a grapple, with a move-equivalent action remaining.

Or, these options do not require a successful opposed roll:
• Attack with one single light weapon (but not two).
• Cast certain spells.
• Use standard action to wriggle free from a grapple or turn a pin into a grapple with an escape artist check.

The Questions:
#1 - Does this look generally correct?
#2 - For the first set of options requiring a successful opposed rolls, may you attempt as many opposed rolls as you have attacks or are you limited to one?
#3a - When you choose to attack with a single light weapon, say your fist, is your opponent still grappled? (I think this is YES, because there is no statement otherwise that I can find, but making sure.)
#3b - When you choose to attack with a single light weapon, say your fist, may you attempt as many attacks as you have or are you limited to one? If you can have multiple attacks, may a monk use his flurry ability? (I think the answer to the second would be YES IF the first part is YES, but not positive of either, since the monk flurry is kind of a special-case reproduction of two-weapon fighting.)


Obviously certain feats (Improved Grapple, etc.) change some of these in spots, so I'm just looking for the general case here. Thanks for any clarification that you can provide.
 
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dcollins

Explorer
#1 - Yes. Note that you still have your Dex bonus against opponents you are grappling.
#2 - As many as you have attacks. Attacker's opposed roll goes down with iterative attacks; defender's does not.
#3a - Yes, but note he still has Dex bonus against you (being in the same grapple).
#3b - As many as you have attacks. Looks like monk can use flurry ability -- no specific language against it, and it's not exactly the same as TWF.
 

Darklone

Registered User
#1 yes.
#2 number of attacks
#3a yes, but your fist is not necessarily a light weapon.
#3b I see no reason why multiple attacks should not be allowed. TWF is not allowed, but a monks flurry of blows should be.
 

UltimaGabe

First Post
I'd say that a Monk would NOT be able to use Flurry of Blows. Just because you're not specifically using a separate weapon doesn't mean you're hitting with the same part of your body both times. After all, the reason you can't attack with a second weapon is because you pretty much need your entire body to grapple- including both arms. It's not like you're just standing there holding them down with one arm, you're holding them down with your entire body. A monk would only be able to get one "weapon" off anyway, even though his entire body is a weapon, because he needs the entire body to hold the grapple.

Monsters with Improved Grab can take a -20 on the Grapple Check to hold the target with one hand/jaw/tail/whatever, and if they succeed, they're still grappling, but they're not considered grappled for the purposes of attacking with more than one weapon, Dex bonus to AC, Attacks of Opportunity, and so on. You'd need that ability (and the penalty) in order to do the same with a monk.
 

I'd say that a Monk would NOT be able to use Flurry of Blows. Just because you're not specifically using a separate weapon doesn't mean you're hitting with the same part of your body both times. After all, the reason you can't attack with a second weapon is because you pretty much need your entire body to grapple- including both arms. It's not like you're just standing there holding them down with one arm, you're holding them down with your entire body. A monk would only be able to get one "weapon" off anyway, even though his entire body is a weapon, because he needs the entire body to hold the grapple.
A monk is perfectly capable, however, of making a flurry of blows using the same weapon or part of the body for each blow...thus making use of items that specifically augment unarmed attacks with certain portions of the body. Furthermore, a monk WAS definitely able to use full UBAB while grappling in 3.0. UBAB was subsumed into the 'flurry' ability, so consistency is on the side of the flurry in grapple.
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Another question about grappling: I (and other players I know) seem to think that you have a 50% chance to hit the wrong guy when you attack (at least, with ranged weapons) into the grapple. But we can't find it in the rules. Is it correct? Is it wrong? Is this a legacy of 3.0?
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
A monk can use Flurry of Blows while grappling, but the extra attack from the flurry has to be an unarmed strike (at a -4 because he's grappling), not another grapple check. The 3.5 Flurry of Blows language states that the extra attack can only be used for an unarmed strike or an attack with a monk special weapon. A grapple check is neither of those.
 

Caliban

Rules Monkey
KaeYoss said:
Another question about grappling: I (and other players I know) seem to think that you have a 50% chance to hit the wrong guy when you attack (at least, with ranged weapons) into the grapple. But we can't find it in the rules. Is it correct? Is it wrong? Is this a legacy of 3.0?
It's still in the 3.5 rules. PHB, page 151, "Table 8-6: Armor Class Modifiers", footnote 3.
 

the_bruiser

First Post
Caliban said:
A monk can use Flurry of Blows while grappling, but the extra attack from the flurry has to be an unarmed strike (at a -4 because he's grappling), not another grapple check. The 3.5 Flurry of Blows language states that the extra attack can only be used for an unarmed strike or an attack with a monk special weapon. A grapple check is neither of those.

Caliban - Are you sure this is right? How 'bout the rest of you? In the second bunch of options, you're no longer making grapple checks - you're attacking while grappled, but it's still an attack check, not a grapple check. Thus, it seems that it would have normal "attack" characteristics, and would as such would apply under the flurry language you reference above. Am I looking at this wrong?
 

Kae'Yoss

First Post
Caliban said:
It's still in the 3.5 rules. PHB, page 151, "Table 8-6: Armor Class Modifiers", footnote 3.

Well, not exactly "Hide in Plain Sight". They should have put it, in "when you're grappled" or somewhere else in the grappling rules themselves.
 

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