Grappling question

[direcow]

This came up in my group last night. If two people are in a grapple and another character attempts to fire a ranged weapon at the grappled bad guy. Does the bad gue get any kind of cover or is there a possibility that the other character involved in the grapple will be hit instead. The rules do not seem to discuss this, but it almost seems that there should be some type of cover. What about melee attacks and targeted spells that require a ranged touch attack? Thanks for any answeres or comments.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ranged attacks into a grapple have an equal chance to hit any of the grappling combatants. From the SRD, "Roll randomly to see which grappling combatant you strike. That defender loses any Dexterity bonus to AC." Melee attacks do not have this issue and you have no chance of targeting someone else accidentally. Ranged spells are the same as any ranged weapon.

 

[JesterPoet]

Is this any place in the Player's Handbook? Though I don't doubt the validity of the SRD, I'd like to figure out how we missed this if it is in the PH somewhere.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Yes, in the Combat Modifiers chart, as one of the footnotes. Not having the PH at work, I cannot give you a page number or table number, but it's the same one as in the SRD.

 

[shilsen]

Yes, in the Combat Modifiers chart, as one of the footnotes. Not having the PH at work, I cannot give you a page number or table number, but it's the same one as in the SRD.

Pg.151, Table 8-6:Armor Class Modifiers

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Ranged attacks into a grapple have an equal chance to hit any of the grappling combatants.

That's not strictly true. As you posted, what ranged attacks do is randomly determine their target.

Many people read that as a 50-50 shot of hitting either of two grapplers, but others choose to include modifiers for size, as well (counting a large as equal to 4 mediums, etc.). As long as it's randomly determined, it seems to be acceptable by the RAW.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Well, I personally assume an unweighted distribution unless otherwise specified. Based on your point, I could choose to use 99% PC and 1% for all NPCs (regardless of number) and call that RAW.

 

[DrSpunj]

Well, I personally assume an unweighted distribution unless otherwise specified.

Which is fair given the lack of specificity in the RAW, but it rubs me the wrong way that if my Medium-sized dwarven friend is being grappled by a Large Bear or Huge Fiendish Centipede that I have an equal chance of hitting him or the much larger beast with my arrows. At least if you add in some ratio accounting for size differences you can approach something more realistic, IMO, and usually to the party's benefit.

Since the dwarf and bear share the same four squares, IMC we give a 25% chance to hit the dwarf and a 75% chance to hit the bear (usually rolling a d8 and hitting the dwarf on a roll of 1 or 2). However, if the bear has grappled the dwarf using Improved Grab then, because the bear isn't considered grappled itself, there's no chance to hit the dwarf.

Similar math with 9 squares for a Huge Fiendish Centipede we've agreed to fudge a bit to keep the math manageable at the table and go with another d8, but only hitting the dwarf on a roll of 1.

Those are purely House Rules, but the tend to help the party substantially more than any monsters/oppenents since generally it's the Small & Medium-sized party members being grappled by Large, Huge, etc. monsters.

Oh, and it doesn't really slow down gameplay any more than a miss chance from concealment or something like that. Just roll an extra d8 with attack and damage dice and check it first.

Thanks,
DrSpunj

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Based on your point, I could choose to use 99% PC and 1% for all NPCs (regardless of number) and call that RAW.

Pretty much, yeah, since they don't specify.

 

[JesterPoet]

However, if the bear has grappled the dwarf using Improved Grab then, because the bear isn't considered grappled itself, there's no chance to hit the dwarf.

Actually, our example involved a bear using Improved Grab. Are you saying that it wouldn't have called for the percent chance to hit the bear then, or is that just due to the way you "houseruled" it?