Grappling questions

[trimeulose]

Ok, so I have a couple of questions about grappling.

I have both monk and rogue levels, and I grapple. now I have won the first opposed grapple, and I decide to pin my opponent. Now I get say an extra three attacks, do the attacks hit automatically, or not. If not, then what are the AC modifiers (other than the +4 to attacks against him/her).

Moreover are the attacks after a pin automatic, simply modified attacks, or are they opposed checks?

Next, during a grapple if for the opposed check I decide to damage the opponent, would I get sneak attack damage. I should get it during the pin (if I pin) right??

When I use my extra attacks for opposed grapple checks, would the opposed checks be at lesser bonuses for the defender as well? For instance I get three attacks at +15/+10/+5 and I'm grappling with someone else who has two attacks at +6/+1. Now I use the first opposed check to damage, would that meant that the next attack would be a +10 vs a +1 or would it be a +10 vs a +6. Or could it even be another +15/+6 (which I doubt).

This raises another question if I make more than one opposed check, and the defender doesnt have enough attacks to react would he run out? Or do you always get your highest bonus, but you can make as many opposed checks as you have attacks?

 

[Shalewind]

This is my understanding, and it might be subject to inaccuracy...

Now I get say an extra three attacks, do the attacks hit automatically, or not.

Not.

Moreover are the attacks after a pin automatic, simply modified attacks, or are they opposed checks?

Opposed Checks. Pinning merely causes the target to loose their action and prevents movement, note that they are not helpless.

Next, during a grapple if for the opposed check I decide to damage the opponent, would I get sneak attack damage. I should get it during the pin (if I pin) right??

Not sure on this one. Pinned status does not include "Looses all Dex bonus to AC" The words immobile are used however. I would rule against sneak attack damage. Anyone?

When I use my extra attacks for opposed grapple checks, would the opposed checks be at lesser bonuses for the defender as well? For instance I get three attacks at +15/+10/+5 and I'm grappling with someone else who has two attacks at +6/+1. Now I use the first opposed check to damage, would that meant that the next attack would be a +10 vs a +1 or would it be a +10 vs a +6. Or could it even be another +15/+6 (which I doubt).

Alright. You use all subsequent opposed grapple checks at their iterative bonus. Pinned opponent still get an opposed check, I believe. I also believe they use their maximum Grapple check to oppose each of yours. Opposesd Grapple Checks do not count against their attacks.

This raises another question if I make more than one opposed check, and the defender doesnt have enough attacks to react would he run out? Or do you always get your highest bonus, but you can make as many opposed checks as you have attacks?

No. They don't run out. If the opponent is not pinned, he can use all his grapple checks and you may use your highest grapple bonus to oppose them.

Anyone check me on this one?

 

[Ranger REG]

I have both monk and rogue levels, and I grapple. now I have won the first opposed grapple, and I decide to pin my opponent. Now I get say an extra three attacks, do the attacks hit automatically, or not. If not, then what are the AC modifiers (other than the +4 to attacks against him/her).

No, they do not hit automatically. You still need to make grapple check as an attack to cause damage or pin opponent.

Moreover are the attacks after a pin automatic, simply modified attacks, or are they opposed checks?

No.

Next, during a grapple if for the opposed check I decide to damage the opponent, would I get sneak attack damage. I should get it during the pin (if I pin) right??

No. Only your allies who are not grappling with your opponent can apply his Sneak Attack damage (if any).

When I use my extra attacks for opposed grapple checks, would the opposed checks be at lesser bonuses for the defender as well? For instance I get three attacks at +15/+10/+5 and I'm grappling with someone else who has two attacks at +6/+1. Now I use the first opposed check to damage, would that meant that the next attack would be a +10 vs a +1 or would it be a +10 vs a +6. Or could it even be another +15/+6 (which I doubt).

On your turn, the opponent uses his highest bonus to his grapple check as a reaction.

On his turn, you use your highest bonus to your grapple check as a reaction.

This raises another question if I make more than one opposed check, and the defender doesnt have enough attacks to react would he run out? Or do you always get your highest bonus, but you can make as many opposed checks as you have attacks?

See above. When you initiate an opposed grapple check on your turn, it count against your number of attacks while your opponent uses his highest bonus (+6) to his grapple check as a reaction. So he can react to all three of your attacks (+15/+10/+5 vs. +6).

When it is your opponent's turn, his grapple checks as an attack counts against his number of attacks while you use your highest bonus (+15) to your grapple check as a reaction. IOW, you can react to all two of his attacks (+15 vs. +6/+1).

 

[trimeulose]

So you mean to say that even though I have pinned an opponent and he can not move to react, that I can not jut hit him. Plus, on top of that, even though he cant move I still cant hit him in a way that would damage him more?

Please tell me differently!!!

 

[Brekki]

It is true, and it is baaaaaaaaaad. Pinning is only worth it vs spellcasters or when you have the feat from OA that automatically deals out critical damage when you maintain the pin. When you are a monk, atleast you can do real dmg instead of subdual

 

[Shalewind]

Pin is a relative term. Basicly, it means that you are using all of your limbs to restrain him. He isn't helpless and he can still block a coup de grace. In addition, he can still use his agility to wiggle around, he just can attack or use his own grapple checks.

You can still get your attacks in. Bear in mind, this is a wrestling match. If you have him pinned, it isn't effortless. You could in theroy try to pin him with one arm and then get your other ATTACKS off as attack actions, but if you choose to try, all Grapple checks are at a -20.

Otherwise it is all in the opposed grapple check. Suppose you start the round in grappled position. You'll have to add in misc modifiers and size:

You would have a +15 vs +6
+10 vs +6 and
+5 vs +6

You stand a good chance of success with the first one, and a fair chance with the second two. You can use the first one to pin, meaning he can't try to oppose grapple you on his action. Or with a success you can deal damage as with an unarmed strike.

Grappling is super powerful. Assume you are a high level monk doing 1d20+10 with each hit. Since you are a monk you can even get FIVE grapple checks. Now, if you grab a wizard...? Chances are he can't cast spells and he won't be able to oppose your grapple (pin). He is effectively useless as you do anywhere from 1d20+10 to 4d20+40 in a round.

As for sneak attack damage... You need focus and the ability to hit vital areas for a sneak attack to work. If I have a guy pinned to the ground using both my arms and legs, it's highly unlikely he is going to let me put my dagger in his side. Remember, your are wresetling too. Now if you took the -20 option to try and pin him with one arm.... Then maybe...

 

[Ranger REG]

So you mean to say that even though I have pinned an opponent and he can not move to react, that I can not jut hit him. Plus, on top of that, even though he cant move I still cant hit him in a way that would damage him more?

Please tell me differently!!!

You can still hit him normally after pinning him, you (a rogue) cannot benefit from Sneak Attack, not when your opponent is doing his best to escape from you (he is still utiilzing his Dex against you in grappling).

Just be glad that he cannot hurt you until he wins his grapple check (on his turn) to escape from being pinned.

 

[FANGO]

Grappling works just as Shalewind says it does.

To add a little more clarification...

"Pinning" doesn't actually mean pinning them to the ground or anything. Visualize it more as a bearhug-type maneuver, where you restrain their limbs and hold them such that they can't do anything but try to get out. The only effects of pinning are that the pin-ee can't do anything except try to get out, along the standard effects of being grappled (can't move, no dex to people outside of the grapple, no threatened area).

To back up Shalewind's second post, I would like to mention that I used to have a 15th-or-so level equivalent half-ogre barbarian type who used to grapple all the time. By doing this, he took out countless spellcasters, and also was able to best many fighters who were clearly better than him in combat, just not as strong (he took out a 20th level monk singlehandedly, only reaching about half of his hp total, admittedly this took a lot of luck but once he got a grab on the guy (who had a massive touch AC) the battle was pretty much over). So grappling really doesn't need anything else, you can already do a lot of potent things with it.

 

[Brekki]

Grappling can be very powerfull. Even more so with the feats from Oriental Adventures.

I am playing a Psychic Warrior with Claw Powers, and the "Snatch" feat. Getting a free grapple check to initiate the grapple without an AoO is powerfull, especially when you can still hit and damage normally with your claws, and your enemy can't use his medium or large weapon in the grapple.

A few adventures ago, at lvl 7, I grappled an Ogre Mage and killed him on my own.

btw ... the party rogues love me

 

[0-hr]

If you are grappling the bad guy, then he loses his Dex with respect to everyone outside of the grapple (good news for the rogues in your group). But when they attack into the grapple, is there a chance that they will hit you? Or is that just with missle weapons? I can never find that dern rule..