Grasping Weapons being thrown...?

[NMcCoy]

I just noticed this when making a Longsword+Tratnyr Eladrin Ranger - the power of a Grasping Weapon doesn't require a melee attack, apparently, just "hitting with the weapon". It looks like I can throw my tratnyr at an enemy and drag them across the battlefield.
This raises two questions:
1) Is this intended? (Grasping weapons can be spears or polearms. Some spear-group weapons can be thrown. Magic weapons return when thrown. Apparently they do so with sufficient force to carry an attached enemy with them.)
2) Is this awesome? (Answer: yes. Yes it is.)

 

[Danceofmasks]

1) I don't presume to be telepathic or otherwise able to discern the AV writers' intent.
2) Yes, it's awesome.

 

[Mort_Q]

1. I'd expect the errata to add the word melee into the power description, but I've been wrong before. Several times.
2. It's useful.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The creature must be within your melee reach (don't count extra reach from a weapon).

So, the answer is no. Unless the creature is adjacent to you (assuming you aren't playing a monster with reach as a PC) you cannot perform a grab action against the target, and thus you cannot benefit from the property of the Grasping Weapon. Granted they should have spelled that out in the Grasping Weapon text...

Now, it is a lot less clear when you invoke the POWER of the Grasping Weapon. In that case the effect is a free action you can take when you 'hit with the weapon', which seems to indicate that it is indeed possible. So perhaps I should have said "yes" instead of "no". At least you can only use it once per encounter, but since tratnyr has a range of 20 I guess you could say it is pretty awesome!

I also agree it will (or should) get an errata.

 

[Rechan]

I have seen a lot of folks here reference a grasping javelin. I would allow it, but only on the Daily power.

 

[NMcCoy]

Yes, I agree that it certainly can't be used for normal grabs at range; I was referring to the encounter power.

 

[webrunner]

There is a monster, it's a kobold or orc I beleive, which has a grabbing attack at range using a harpoon with a string.. so it's not unheard of in the rules for something to work like that

 

[On Puget Sound]

I believe the (specific) text of Grasping Weapon allowing you to use the weapon for grab attacks overrides the (general) PHB 290 rule that you don't count your weapon's reach to Grab. Isn't that the whole reason it's given only to polearms and spears, to allow range-2 grabs?

 

[Danceofmasks]

I disagree.
The specific text allows you to change the parameters of the grab action by including your proficiency bonus.
But it's still otherwise a grab action ... which would also mean the "don't add weapon modifiers" text applies except for proficiency bonus, so (for example) your enhancement bonus doesn't apply.

But the encounter power allows you to grab on a hit without using the grab action ... so you can do that with reach, or it seems at range.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The property of a Grasping Weapon allows you to use it with enhancement bonus. "You can use this weapon to grab targets, adding the weapon's enhancement bonus to your grab attack. You can still use this weapon to attack a target you've grabbed with it."

They did however neglect in that to deal with the fact that you can only grab things that are adjacent to you, so by RAW it cannot be used with a grab attack beyond 1 square, even if the weapon has reach.

Then they also neglected to consider ranged polearms and spears when they wrote the weapon's power entry. I REALLY do not think the intention was to be able to have a Grasping Tratnyr and throw it 20 squares and instantly yank the target back next to you, but that is the literal game mechanic as written, no doubt about it.

Personally I'd house rule it. Add a clause to the property which says it allows a grab out to the reach of the weapon, which allows you to pull someone in from 2 squares with it, which I agree was the intent. I would also house rule in the word 'using a melee attack power' in Grasping Weapon's power section, which thus forbids the 'harpoon effect'.

Not that a more limited form of harpoon effect wouldn't be a cool thing for some weapon to have, but I really don't think that was the intent of Grasping Weapon, and having it work out to a range of as much as 20 squares is a bit extreme. The purpose of Grasping Weapon was to make grab a viable attack strategy. Currently grab is pretty much worthless much past around 8th level because it is a non-weapon and non-implement attack, thus it cannot get enough of a bonus to keep up with monster's increasing defenses. By epic tier it is thoroughly worthless, as is bullrush as well. There are a few other things like Alchemical Items from AV that suffer basically the same problem, though they hacked in a solution there by just hardcoding in a scaling +X vs Reflex to-hit (something nothing else in the game has). Grasping Weapon is the 'hack' to let grasp work at high levels.