Green Ronin not signing GSL (Forked Thread: Doing the GSL. Who?)

[BryonD]

I'll probably still buy system-neutral Freeport stuff, but that's about it. I have no real interest in Blue Rose, True 20, or Mutants & Masterminds. It's disappointing to see GR choose to abandon the majority of their customer base.

Huh???

What exactly do you think the majority of their fan base are buying from them? I'm pretty confident that it is Blue Rose, True 20, or Mutants & Masterminds, along with other bits.

As for "abandoning", it is still WotC that split the fan base and then told the 3PPs, you are with us or against us, pick one. If you want GR stuff, tell WotC to release a 4E OGL SRD, or at least a vastly less unreasonable GSL. They do that and you will likely get what you want in no time.

 

[DaveMage]

Its also sad that so few 3P companies are willing to go to bat for their fans and try to work something out, and this I have a harder time understanding.

What newly-released D&D-compatible Green Ronin products have you purchased in the last 2 years?

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I have considered Mutants and Masterminds my "home" game for quite some time, now. So long as Green Ronin is producing M&M books, I will be happy.

 

[BryonD]

Its sad the GSL is so restrictive, but understandable. Its also sad that so few 3P companies are willing to go to bat for their fans and try to work something out, and this I have a harder time understanding.

Again, HUH? You are defending the GSL as understandable and yet turning around and blaming the 3Ps for not being "willing to go to bat"? I can buy that you see WotC's reasons for why the GSL is as it is. That is fine. But to accept that aggressive stance from one party and expect the other to be responsible for the results is not a reasonable combination.

 

[Grimstaff]

What newly-released D&D-compatible Green Ronin products have you purchased in the last 2 years?

Beyond the Towers, Mansion of Shadows, and Black Company campaign setting. Excellent stuff.

 

[Belen]

Its also sad that so few 3P companies are willing to go to bat for their fans and try to work something out, and this I have a harder time understanding.

I think you wildly overestimate the ability of GR to work anything out with Wizards. Wizards has not reason to work with such a tiny company. If they had wanted to work with any of the third party companies, then they had a year to formalize any deals. Wizards was talking to them. The fact that the GSL was such a shock to them shows that Wizards did not take their advice.

They did attempt to work with Wizards. Wizards, however, did what they wanted to anyway. There is absolutely no indication that they would work with anyone on modifying the terms of the GSL.

So, you should be asking why Wizards was not willing to go to bat for its fans by working with third party companies on a license that would be palatable to anyone other than themselves.

Wizards got the exact response that they wanted and they managed to delay an entire development cycle while the third party companies waited on the GSL.

 

[Grimstaff]

Again, HUH? You are defending the GSL as understandable and yet turning around and blaming the 3Ps for not being "willing to go to bat"? I can buy that you see WotC's reasons for why the GSL is as it is. That is fine. But to accept that aggressive stance from one party and expect the other to be responsible for the results is not a reasonable combination.

I'm certainly not blaming 3Ps for the situation, or even defending the GSL, for that matter. But the GSL is what it is, a set of rules laid to down to protect WotC's IP in exchange for the use of the D&D logo. If a company of GRs size isn't willing to find some way to work things out, then it speaks to a direct lack of interest in continuing to support the D&D community their business was founded upon.

Other companies (Necro, Goodman, Kenzer) seem to be making an effort, with or without the GSL.

As another poster noted, I would agree this decision has more to do with GR deciding D&D simply does not butter their bread as well as their current product lines than with the GSL.

 

[Grimstaff]

1. you wildly overestimate the ability of GR to work anything out with Wizards.

2. They did attempt to work with Wizards.

3. Wizards got the exact response that they wanted and they managed to delay an entire development cycle while the third party companies waited on the GSL.

1. I guess we'll never know, will we?

2. How so? I've seen no indication of that, and Chris has been very forthcoming about their decision-making process in this matter. If I missed something about them offering an alternate arrangment to WotC, please point me in the direction of that statement. The quote "Perhaps WotC will revise the GSL in the positive way, but we cannot build our business on maybes." would seem to indicate they have no plans of attempting a special arrangement in the future either.

3. Yes, and aliens were behind it the whole time. Black helicopters were sighted over WotC headquarters last full moon...

 

[carmachu]

His main concern seems to be fear of frivolous lawsuits for perceived infractions that could result in unfair legal expenses. Could a professional company of GRs size not be able to submit products for legal approval before publication, making such fears unnecessary?

Didnt read in full? The GSL can change at any time and WOTC doesnt have to let you know. So one day your good, the very NEXT day *poof* your in violation.

Its sad the GSL is so restrictive, but understandable. Its also sad that so few 3P companies are willing to go to bat for their fans and try to work something out, and this I have a harder time understanding.

Why do you lay this at the feet of 3P companies not going to bat for their fans? The whole mess is clearly laid ot WOTC's feet with the crappy GSL.
Why should Wotc work anything out? What leverage does a 3P have-the answer is really none.

I dont understand how you lay this at 3P's feet and not Wotc's.

 

[mangamuscle]

1. I guess we'll never know, will we?

You seem to think (for lack of a better word) that GR did no true effort into working out a deal with WotC, if that were true, why wait until now? If there was no interest at all they could have made this announcement the next day 4th edition was announced and continue to work on their own line of products.

2. How so? I've seen no indication of that, and Chris has been very forthcoming about their decision-making process in this matter. If I missed something about them offering an alternate arrangment to WotC, please point me in the direction of that statement. The quote "Perhaps WotC will revise the GSL in the positive way, but we cannot build our business on maybes." would seem to indicate they have no plans of attempting a special arrangement in the future either.

You seem to confuse a public announcement with a disclousure of all emails, documents and phone conversations transcripts related to GR and WotC relations in the past twelve months. No, they made an announcement but that does not mean they have said everything related to this topic, in real life it never happens that way.

3. Yes, and aliens were behind it the whole time. Black helicopters were sighted over WotC headquarters last full moon...

As in "Hey, I have no sensible answer for that, let's see if I can divert everybodys attention with some nonsense"