D&D (2024) Greyhawk Confirmed. Tell Me Why.

[GarthS]

I mean, if they unleash Greyhawk in the DMsGuild, that will make most Greyhawk die hards happy enough.

That's a totally fair call and, since I don't frequent DMsGuild at all, one that I hadn't considered.

A player supported Greyhawk would be fine.

I read the 8 page spread and didn't see Dark Sun mentioned once in all the nostagia bait settings

 

[Chaosmancer]

Yes people have preferences, but some things are just classics that stand the test of time.

Works like Shakespeare's, and Tolkien's writings; both of which I can walk into any US books store and find copies of, will be around long after D&D 7th edition is making way for D&D 8th edition...

A lot of the dissatisfaction here has to do with the fact that may of the older "official" D&D settings have been repeatedly altered to fit what the game designers have done with new editions.

To a large degree, I think many fans are just tired with the continual retconning.

Eh, somethings stand the test of time, other things don't, and some are purposefully preserved against time.

Sure, I can go to any book store in the USA and find Tolkien or Shakespeare. I can also find Twilight, One Piece and the most recent Brandon Sanderson novel. Kids in school are being taught Percy Jackson alongside Beowulf and Bradbury.

Another thing to remember is... WHY do all these stores stock Shakespeare? Because every school in America uses Shakespeare to teach English, so the majority of people who read shakespeare do so because they are students and it is required reading, or because they are people with English degrees and have been inducted into studying these works. But you don't see anyone online talking about how their group is going to get together for a night of reading The Tempest.

And sure, fans might be tired of the retcons... but I'll turn you towards another piece of literature that has stood the test of time. Sherlock Holmes. And if you want to talk Retcons, probably 75% of Sherlock Holmes media is retcons and retellings and reimaginings. An amazing book series by Drew Hayes that I love is one of these, 5-Minute Sherlock. So I'm not even sure you can say reimagining an old property is always bad, because there is a reimagined sherlock holmes series that is very good, multiple of them even.

 

[TiQuinn]

The more realistic but cynical take, and most likely the real case: Hey, what is left of the original d&d world we can update in a way that will finally get rid of and alienate almost all of the remaining customer base that comes before 2014/2018 or so. I know, what about that super problematic setting? Dark Sun? No, the other one... ah Greyhawk. Yeah let's front cover warrior the crap out of it! That will be awesome! Yeah... mach 10 full ahead!

So, yeah I'm going with take two. A deliberate destruction of everything people enjoyed, related to and connected with in Greyhawk will be purposely and spitefully destroyed, oh I'm sorry "updated". You know, just to show "them/others" from "before" they are truly not welcome any more, at least in any "official" capacity. Love to be wrong, but I don't see why I would be.

I think this is a craptastic take because even in its glory days, TSR and Gary Gygax himself never did anything with Greyhawk. The Greyhawk Folio and Box Set were anemic in terms of content. Consider that perhaps Gygax never wanted to share Greyhawk with the world - it was his personal campaign. He wanted people to create their own settings, not use his, but people kept begging him for peeks behind the curtains, and that’s all he ever gave them. Little peeks that did little to satisfy them. This carried through to Castle Greyhawk, for which he had to uncover notes for his Castle and Crusades reboot and struggled to do so - why? Because he didn’t have them anymore if he ever had them.

 

[TiQuinn]

I’m on page 10 reading through…but for those 3e players, how was that editions Living Greyhawk stuff? Any good, mix bag, more good than meh? Curious if it’s a good read(s) for a new Greyhawk campaign. Thanks in advance!

I read through it and it was extremely dry. Like reading a history textbook.

 

[Jaeger]

Sure, I can go to any book store in the USA and find Tolkien or Shakespeare. I can also find Twilight, One Piece and the most recent Brandon Sanderson novel. Kids in school are being taught Percy Jackson alongside Beowulf and Bradbury.

Another thing to remember is... WHY do all these stores stock Shakespeare? Because every school in America uses Shakespeare to teach English,

You could get shakespeare in bookstores long before it became universal for american schools.

You can find him in the bookstores of countries where he is not. Same with Tolkien.

And there are several authors that we can say the same.

So I'm not even sure you can say reimagining an old property is always bad,

Never said it was.

Just that the original work is what truly endures, and it is their universal appeal that is the reason why people choose to do adaptations.

Not the other way around.

 

[AstroCat]

I think this is a craptastic take because even in its glory days, TSR and Gary Gygax himself never did anything with Greyhawk. The Greyhawk Folio and Box Set were anemic in terms of content. Consider that perhaps Gygax never wanted to share Greyhawk with the world - it was his personal campaign. He wanted people to create their own settings, not use his, but people kept begging him for peeks behind the curtains, and that’s all he ever gave them. Little peeks that did little to satisfy them. This carried through to Castle Greyhawk, for which he had to uncover notes for his Castle and Crusades reboot and struggled to do so - why? Because he didn’t have them anymore if he ever had them.

To each their own, I’ve enjoyed the Greyhawk setting for decades. I’ve also found an abundance of great content, old and new, so not “craptastic” for me. I’m guessing I’m not alone in enjoying the Greyhawk setting.

 

[Swanosaurus]

Just a sideways perspective: My acquaintance with D&D and it's settings has always been more in passing (played some AD&D2 in the Forgotten Realms, read a few Dragonlance and Dark Sun novels, hated 3e and still haven't played 5e even though it feels kind of nice), the inclusion of Greyhawk actully has me excited. Not quite sure, I guess I always had the notion of Greyhawk being a more "grounded" setting than the FR, and therefore maybe a good baseline. Of the bigger-name D&D-settings, Greyhawk is simply the one I know least about.

 

[MNblockhead]

I find it fascinating that people talk about how much they love Greyhawk and its lore, and then also tout its undeveloped nature. It makes me think people love Greyhawk for what they brought to it (awesome) but that seems like it will lead to disappointment in whatever WotC does with it in the DMG.

For me Greyhawk is a great example of a world given in broad strokes, filled with tidbits of lore, but more so, lots of tools (well, lots of tables) for DMs to create encounters and have a sandbox to throw in their own adventures. It was evocative enough to get your creative juices flowing without inundating you with hundreds of pages of detail. A great map with a few sentences to a couple of paragraphs on each area, and tools to generate encounters, weather, etc. For those who wanted more filed in, they keyed it to already published adventures. Further, it was cross referenced with tools published in the DM's Guide. That's why I think it makes a lot of sense to have Greyhawk as part of the DMG. Here is a book of tools for the DM to create a campaign and here is a world, in broad strokes, to get you started if you want a cool map and some inspiration on cultures, politics, environment, etc.

I know that there was future development of Greyhawk over the years through additional adventures and Living Greyhawk and fan-created content. I expect that this will be more in line with the original Greyhawk, just another tool in the DMG that helps bring together all the other world-building tools in the book, to help DMs get started with their old world building.

It is not going to be another richly detailed setting like Forgotten Realms or Eberron. But if they open it up to the DMs Guild, then those who like more detailed lore, detailed cities, and more information on the various areas will get what they want through the community.

 

[TiQuinn]

To each their own, I’ve enjoyed the Greyhawk setting for decades. I’ve also found an abundance of great content, old and new, so not “craptastic” for me. I’m guessing I’m not alone in enjoying the Greyhawk setting.

And you’re welcome not to buy anything you don’t think worthy of the name.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Shakespeare's plays, for the most part, are separate unconnected things.

The Henriad would like a word.