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Grim & Gritty, What do you think?

cappun

First Post
I just discovered the Grim & Gritty rules and I am really intrigued by the system. I was wondering how the system works in practice. Does it bog down combat too much? Does it make death too much of a reality?

For those of you who have played with the Grim & Gritty or similar rules, I would like to know what you think as compared to regular D&D.

Thanks.
 

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SteelDraco

First Post
I use it for my online game - a mix of Call of Cthulhu, Dark Matter, and Delta Green, set in 1760s Boston. I find it works pretty well for what I'm trying to do, which is create an environment in which the PCs feel like combat is something that they should only engage in as a last resort, something that is threatening to their lives pretty much any time they engage in it.

The rules do take some getting used to, particularly if you haven't played much besides D&D. Several basic assumptions are pretty different. Your players will likely have trouble remembering things for a while, and will occasionally react as if they were still playing regular D&D, resulting in some pain.

It does take some tweaking to get the system to work with magic well. I've largely avoided direct-damage magic as a part of my setting, which helped me out quite a bit, but probably won't be a useful suggestion for somebody who's intending to use it for more 'mainstream' D&D (if that's even what you're after - what are you going for?) If you use magic as written, spellcasters are EXTREMELY overpowered, as they deal lethal damage to just about any Large or smaller creature with just a spell or two. I found that rewriting the "Maximum Damage by Spell Level" table worked pretty well, though it takes some time to figure out just where you want it.

I haven't found that it bogged down combat much. At least, not once you get used to it. Once everything's figured out and statted out, things run about as quickly as regular D&D. Opposed Defense rolls are something I dropped fairly quickly; I did find that those bogged down combat a bit too much for my tastes. Penalties from damage will irk your players for a while, at least if they're like mine.

As far as making death a reality... well, that's more or less up to you. It does pretty well hose the existing CR system, in my experience. A creature that deals a lot of damage will be VERY powerful in G&G. Ogres, trolls, most predatory animals, etc become tougher opponents. Anything with a high natural armor bonus (over about seven or eight) becomes quite hard to deal with, as it reduces all physical damage by that amount. Try fighting a creature with DR 10/- some time, and see how well the melee fighters do against it. Of course, the PCs will likely have tanks of their own, which means that combat has the potential to last longer.

I will say that I've had no PC fatalaties in my current game, which has been going on for about seven months now. Of course, I can list all the combats that we've been involved with during that time - it's less than ten, I know. Remember, CoC is a major influence on this campaign - if they'd been in a lot of fights, they'd be dead. And I do think the Grim and Gritty stuff helps inject that into the game.

That help to answer your question? Or was it just a mess of pointless rambling? I suspect the latter, but then, it's four in the morning. Ah well. If you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
 

cappun

First Post
Thanks for your thoughts. You indicated that you dropped the opposed defense roles. That was one aspect of the system that I really liked because it gave players a chance to have more than a passive role in whether they got hit. Without the opposed roles, how did you determine whether a given attack is a success?
 

SteelDraco

First Post
I basically use the G&G rules as written, except I assume that PCs roll a 10 on their defense roll. It works out more or less the same as the existing AC system, though skill has more of a factor in it.
 

apoptosis

First Post
I use the G&G system.

I had to change magic some though. I didnt mind the lethality of magic, but made it harder to do

(Wizards take 1hour/spell level to prepare spell, sorcers spells cause subdual damage so they cant cast many spells before they are knocked out and can have bad side effects, Divine spells only sometimes work and sometimes have bad effects, Magecraft (Psionics) is weak). This makes magic costly or difficult to use but deadly when it is used.

The previous poster really hit the mark on the head for combat and monsters. Monsters that do good damage or have good natrual A.C. can be very difficutl to kill without magic.

One rule i adopted though was being able to use your BAB (and only the BAB) for defense at a cost of 1 for 1. This only applies to one attacker (or you have to divy it up among all your attackers). This allows your players to defend better and keeps them alive a lot better.

Apoptosis
 

Jeph

Explorer
I also use G&G pretty much as written, except Base Defense follows a different progression, and I too asume that characters roll 10 for their defense. Here are my alternate Defense progressions.

LV .. Good .. Medium .. Poor
01 .. +02 .... +01 ........ +00
02 .. +03 .... +02 ........ +01
03 .. +04 .... +03 ........ +02
04 .. +05 .... +04 ........ +03
05 .. +07 .... +05 ........ +03
06 .. +08 .... +06 ........ +04
07 .. +09 .... +07 ........ +05
08 .. +10 .... +08 ........ +06
09 .. +11 .... +09 ........ +06
10 .. +13 .... +10 ........ +07
11 .. +14 .... +11 ........ +08
12 .. +15 .... +12 ........ +09
13 .. +16 .... +13 ........ +09
14 .. +17 .... +14 ........ +10
15 .. +19 .... +15 ........ +11
16 .. +20 .... +16 ........ +12
17 .. +21 .... +17 ........ +12
18 .. +22 .... +18 ........ +13
19 .. +23 .... +19 ........ +14
20 .. +25 .... +20 ........ +15

This makes for way fewer hits, something that I consider more realistic.
 

Bendris Noulg

First Post
I like G&G, but don't use it. It works best if:

A. 95% of your opponents are medium-sized humanoids with Class Levels (I'm about 50% on par, with another 25% Large or Huge Humanoid, and about 25% monsters, and that would wipe out a party rather quick with G&G).

B. 99% of your opponents are non-magical and you've cut magic to work with G&G (I'm about 70% non-magical, and magic's been reduced in power but not that much, especially after 15th Level).

I built my own system, about half-way between G&G and W&V (just the right amount of grit and cinema for me and mine).
 


Bendris Noulg

First Post
Oh, I guess...;)

Health & Resilience, about 99% officialized.

Tor-N'lak; A creature currently under development, but it's the first to have H&R implemented, and so we're still reviewing the ins-and-outs of the system, particularly in regards to its Natural Armor.

Thanks for asking for the link, btw... I went to grab it and spotted an error that I was able to clean up.:D
 


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