[GRIM TALES] A few questions...

[Lysander]

Just got the book yesterday and I'm still absorbing it, but I thought I'd throw out a few of my initial questions:

I really like the firearms section, which I understand is similiar to Spycraft, which I've looked at but don't own. I do have a few questions, however.

> There are two different methods described for handling a critical hit with autofire; either only double the damage of the first volley, or treat the d20 of the attack roll like an "exploding" die (reroll all 20's and add the result), resulting in more successful hits. These aren't presented as variants; I'm assuming the latter option is the preferred, and the former is some holdover from Manyshot or someplace. I'd just like clarification on this point, as I anticipate questions from my players.

>Also, Burst Fire is a standard action in the firearms section, but the Improved Burst Fire feat talks about the "bust-fire attack action." So does the feat lessen the time it takes to perform a burst, or is the text in the Burst Fire section incorrect? I assume the latter, b/c I don't see any reason to disallow multiple bursts on a full-attack action from a character with high enough BAB.

I'm also a bit confused about the Master Eldritch Flow talent. Why would anyone increase the spell burn die? The only reason I can see is to lower your chances of rolling ones, but this seems offset by the greater potential spell burn total and the reduced chance to roll max and improve the spell. What am I missing?

Overall though I love the book and it's exactly what I've been looking for. My group recently suffered through a doomed DnD campaign followed quickly by a promising but short-lived romp in Modern, and Grim Tales seems to be the perfect mix of the best of both worlds. I've already been inspired in so many ways. Finally I feel capable of molding the rules to fit the kind of story I want, instead of awkwardly bumbling through the reverse. Kudos!

 

[Victim]

I'm also a bit confused about the Master Eldritch Flow talent. Why would anyone increase the spell burn die? The only reason I can see is to lower your chances of rolling ones, but this seems offset by the greater potential spell burn total and the reduced chance to roll max and improve the spell. What am I missing?

If the caster has amazing burn resistance, then he'll often be better off increasing in the die type to avoid lots of ones. The high level smart hero caster could have 8 burn resistance from magically boosted INT. Basically, he's only worried about rolling ones. Therefore, increasing the die to d8 is going to be a good idea many times. Especially if he reduced the die size earlier, hoping to max out the spell, and instead rolled a bunch of ones and took lots of STR drain.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

> There are two different methods described for handling a critical hit with autofire; either only double the damage of the first volley, or treat the d20 of the attack roll like an "exploding" die (reroll all 20's and add the result), resulting in more successful hits. These aren't presented as variants; I'm assuming the latter option is the preferred, and the former is some holdover from Manyshot or someplace. I'd just like clarification on this point, as I anticipate questions from my players.

Correct-- ignore the text from the preceding paragraph, and use only the text given under the Critical Hits section. (Added to errata.)

>Also, Burst Fire is a standard action in the firearms section, but the Improved Burst Fire feat talks about the "bust-fire attack action." So does the feat lessen the time it takes to perform a burst, or is the text in the Burst Fire section incorrect? I assume the latter, b/c I don't see any reason to disallow multiple bursts on a full-attack action from a character with high enough BAB.

Can you tell that portions of Grim Tales were written during the transfer to 3.5?

Burst Fire is a standard action; it's also considered an attack.

(In 3.5, technically there is no such thing as an "attack action.")

Wulf

 

[Lysander]

Thanks for the quick replies!

(To clarify, as I don't know 3.5 like I know d20 Modern: Burst Fire can be used multiple times as part of a full-attack, provided high enough BAB?)

As for spell burn, that's roughly what I figured; I guess I don't plan on characters getting their spell burn resistances that high (especially when the Improved Caster Level talent doesn't add resistance) and so it is a less appealing option. On that note, would a talent adding one to the character's spell burn resistance be unbalancing?

I'm loving this book and what it offers in terms of flexibility, especially since the core d20 system is intact and therefore many of the changes will be virtually invisible to my players.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

(To clarify, as I don't know 3.5 like I know d20 Modern: Burst Fire can be used multiple times as part of a full-attack, provided high enough BAB?)

Depends on how bad-ass you want guns to be. Just based on how Burst Fire works, it probably wouldn't unbalance anything.

As for spell burn, that's roughly what I figured; I guess I don't plan on characters getting their spell burn resistances that high (especially when the Improved Caster Level talent doesn't add resistance) and so it is a less appealing option.

Don't overlook the other effect of that Talent-- bumping the DC by lowering the die.

On that note, would a talent adding one to the character's spell burn resistance be unbalancing?

Eventually, probably yes. But I like low magic...

 

[ChrisWaller]

While we've got your attention Wulf

*Obligatory just got Grim Tales and I love it blurb*
In the Vehicle Chapter it states that a Maneuver requires a full-round action, but the Skills Chapter says that Drive checks take move actions. Just curious as to which batch of text is gospel?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

In the Vehicle Chapter it states that a Maneuver requires a full-round action, but the Skills Chapter says that Drive checks take move actions. Just curious as to which batch of text is gospel?

If you're using the Vehicles chapter, and you're in vehicle combat, use the text there.

A driver should normally only be able to make one maneuver in a round; it's listed as a full action in order to minimize the number of things the driver can do on his own turn during a dogfight (and, frankly, to give other players something to do).

Depending on the nature of your game and how important driving is to the genre, you could certainly drop Maneuvers down to a move action even during vehicle combat, freeing up the standard action for the driver to do something else (for example, lean out the window and shoot a pistol).

Glad you are enjoying the book.

Wulf

 

[GlassJaw]

Overall though I love the book and it's exactly what I've been looking for. My group recently suffered through a doomed DnD campaign followed quickly by a promising but short-lived romp in Modern, and Grim Tales seems to be the perfect mix of the best of both worlds. I've already been inspired in so many ways. Finally I feel capable of molding the rules to fit the kind of story I want, instead of awkwardly bumbling through the reverse. Kudos!

Welcome to the Grim side!!

 

[Lysander]

A new question

So here's a quick question:

Should the damage conversion from armor occur before or after you check for Massive Damage?

I'm inclined to think the latter, otherwise armor might be too good.

As always, I gotta say I'm loving this book. It feels like a collection of all the house rules I've been wanting to make, seamlessly integrated together in a nicely-packaged hardcover. I can't wait for my copy of Slavelords of Cydonia to arrive!

 

[Piratecat]

Since lethal damage is the only thing that should count for massive damage, I'd argue that the conversion should happen first before the save. That's just my opinion, though.