GSL questions for Scott Rouse and Mike Lescault

[JamesM]

I will make a prediction based on nothing but gut instinct, so feel free to mock me either now or later if I'm proven wrong.

Ready?

There will be no free, open license for 4e at all. There may be -- and I'm not even sure of this -- a paid, limited use trademark license available for 4e at some point for a select few publishers. They may even call this license the Game System License to save face, but it will bear little to no relationship either to the OGL/D20 STL or what people expect the still-unseen GSL to be.

I'll even add a further detail to my prediction: this new GSL-but-not won't be available to third parties till after GenCon 2008, if not later.

 

[HyrumOWC]

There will be no free, open license for 4e at all. There may be -- and I'm not even sure of this -- a paid, limited use trademark license available for 4e at some point for a select few publishers. They may even call this license the Game System License to save face, but it will bear little to no relationship either to the OGL/D20 STL or what people expect the still-unseen GSL to be.

I'll even add a further detail to my prediction: this new GSL-but-not won't be available to third parties till after GenCon 2008, if not later.

I'm pretty sure that there will be a paid, limited license available for companies like Necro, Green Ronin, Fantasy Flight, and the others on the call. I don't think that 4e will be open for awhile, if ever.

I would love to be wrong because I've got ideas for 4e products I'd like to sell, but the signals I'm seeing from WotC are all pointing towards the above.

Hyrum.

 

[mxyzplk]

I will make a prediction based on nothing but gut instinct, so feel free to mock me either now or later if I'm proven wrong.

Ready?

There will be no free, open license for 4e at all. There may be -- and I'm not even sure of this -- a paid, limited use trademark license available for 4e at some point for a select few publishers. They may even call this license the Game System License to save face, but it will bear little to no relationship either to the OGL/D20 STL or what people expect the still-unseen GSL to be.

I'll even add a further detail to my prediction: this new GSL-but-not won't be available to third parties till after GenCon 2008, if not later.

Oh, I totally agree.

1. They'll make sure and delay the "closed" announcement till after June (because they want to sell books to people that wouldn't buy if they heard "closed" but will give in when it's "undefined".

2. They'll wait till after gen Con so they don't have flash mobs chanting "OGL! OGL!" at the Wizards area in the dealer room all the time.

3. Then they'll announce that no, it won't be open, and that there's some super secret licensing scheme that they'll discuss with "reputable companies." They'll then extract money from the big 3ps to put out D&D branded stuff.

All this is decided now, it's just being timed so as to avoid "unfortunate side effects", like havingto deal with the fact that a very large percentage (20%, according to the poll) of their customers don't like this.

 

[Delta]

I actually think that that's about the most likely thing at this point. Or possibly they want to line up maybe 2 specific projects so they can announce "We've listened to you, and we're working with the biggest names in gaming to bring you the support products you demanded blah blah blah".

 

[JamesM]

I actually think that that's about the most likely thing at this point. Or possibly they want to line up maybe 2 specific projects so they can announce "We've listened to you, and we're working with the biggest names in gaming to bring you the support products you demanded blah blah blah".

Wow, you should work in marketing That's a brilliant spin on it and probably the best way to sew a silk purse out of this sow's ear of a screw-up.

(That said, I'm not at all convinced even this will happen)

 

[Delta]

Heh, yeah. After a couple days rumination that really is my best guess for what's happening behind the blackout. I guess if I was forced into the same position that's what I'd recommend -- but feel pretty cruddy about it at the same time.

 

[JohnRTroy]

I'm disappointed in the blackout, because the one thing I would hope WoTC, Hasbro, and all others involved is that the player base are not idiots. It reminds me of what used to be status quo in things like radio and TV--somebody leaves the news desk or a DJ leaves, you sort of pretend they never exist and don't address their departure, or not ever naming your competition. In this day and age that attitude is somewhat insulting. I know it's not L's fault but she's getting orders from somebody who isn't factoring this into play.

However, the quietness tells me that there may be a bigger bombshell on the horizon. Perhaps Hasbro is selling the D&D game/brand and needs to tighten up any IP problems involved with an open license, or Wizards is being absorbed into Hasbro. Perhaps they want to keep the rules out of third party's hands because they've patented a few critical mechanics, and want to prevent other companies from previewing them and trying to challenge the patent. Or perhaps Hasbro is merging with another company.

 

[hossrex]

I'm disappointed in the blackout, because the one thing I would hope WoTC, Hasbro, and all others involved is that the player base are not idiots. It reminds me of what used to be status quo in things like radio and TV--somebody leaves the news desk or a DJ leaves, you sort of pretend they never exist and don't address their departure, or not ever naming your competition. In this day and age that attitude is somewhat insulting. I know it's not L's fault but she's getting orders from somebody who isn't factoring this into play.

However, the quietness tells me that there may be a bigger bombshell on the horizon. Perhaps Hasbro is selling the D&D game/brand and needs to tighten up any IP problems involved with an open license, or Wizards is being absorbed into Hasbro. Perhaps they want to keep the rules out of third party's hands because they've patented a few critical mechanics, and want to prevent other companies from previewing them and trying to challenge the patent. Or perhaps Hasbro is merging with another company.

The biggest "Yes Chicken Little, the Sky IS Falling" post of the year.

It so absurd nothing else can/need be said. If thats what a person chooses to believe, then best of luck. It shouldn't suit you far beyond hobby message boards.

 

[JohnRTroy]

What are you talking about, hossrex? It's a legitimate concern, and none of those theories are out of the realm of possibility. I didn't say "D&D was being killed" or anything like that.

This whole OGL/GSL/WTH (What the Hell) license issue has not been managed well by WoTC. Third Edition they discussed all their plans a lot, they are being very quiet now and there has been a delay in getting information to the third parties involved, and from all perspectives they seem to be changing their minds.

I think a lot of us can agree that this has not been handled very well, so I do have to wonder what's going on. Usually, when a company gets very quiet there's some cause for concern, there is precedent when companies are sold or introducing major policy shifts. I've seen that happen before in entertainment and software industries.

 

[Dragon Snack]

Well, you did throw out a lot of overly drastic things in that post. I agree that something big is coming and I doubt I'm going to like the outcome either, but about the only thing I think is realistic in your bombshell list is that D&D might end up for sale (not likely, but releasing a new edition so your sales look better is a classic move).

-Dragon Snack

It reminds me of what used to be status quo in things like radio and TV--somebody leaves the news desk or a DJ leaves, you sort of pretend they never exist and don't address their departure...

What do you mean "used to be status quo"? It's still done all the time, it just may not be as easy to get away with when listeners start complaining on your website (or another radio station).

-DJ Uno