D&D 5E Guess Who Wants to Pay Top Platinum for Your Magic Items! (Tyranny of Dragons question)

[Riley37]

I'm running a group which has played "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" (intro only), "Tales Trees Tell", most of "Defiance in Phlan", "Courting of Fire", and "Shadow over the Moonsea". Which of the magic items from those stories should the PCs be able to sell in Phlan, at what prices, and with what side effects or unintended consequences? Which of the named, established NPCs in Phlan are likely buyers? If either they, or a generic NPC, buys with the intention to re-sell, then who's likely to end up with the item?


I'm considering the default as "any magic item which the PCs sell, to anyone other than a trusted ally, ends up in the hands of the cult of Tiamat". That could be hilarious, a few sessions later.

I'm also wondering if Phlan's law on sale of magic items, under Ector's administration, is "you may sell any magic item, as long as you're selling it directly to the Knights of the Black Fist, at fixed prices."


What magic items should those PCs be able to buy, either with cash, or by swapping one magic item for another?
What can they buy legally, and what can they buy only when the Knights of the Black Fist aren't looking?
Which of the named, established NPCs would be magic item vendors?
(Or groups, such as the Welcomers, the Order of the Silent Shroud, etc.)

 

[Astrosicebear]

This is an important question, as it keeps popping up in group after group. Especially those running HOTDQ.

At the core of this issue is that magic items specially do not have value. In fact the core rules tells us magic items cannot be sold or traded 99% of the time. So that leaves the DM to figure out that 1% of circumstances.

So why would the PCs want to sell magic items anyways? Money is pretty loose in 5E. Especially since you cant goto a magic store and buy items, the characters seem to always be swimming in cash, or in HOTDQ leaving lots of it behind since they cant carry it all.

What I hear from most groups is that PCs want specific items, or at least a magic weapon. It is frustrating to see an 8th level fighter upset because his main weapon isnt magical. In HOTQD the players have very little time once they are past chapter 4 to actually visit a town, so trading or fencing items isnt even possible. But once they move into ROT and are in Waterdeep, a renowned metropolis, whats to stop them from pawning some magic items?

ROT gives you some outs in high powered council members, zhentarim contacts, etc.

But what if your not in an Adventure Path and your PCs want to ditch items, mostly for other items of more use?

Well, my fighter, who uses a greataxe, went looking in Waterdeep for a magical greataxe... after a few bards, and a decent roll, he found two rumors... one, that the northlanders use greataxes (linking to a chapter in ROT) and that a greataxe of magical renown was buried with a king Dedirius somewhere down south (also links to a ROT chapter). Pretty clever for a DM, but also pretty transparent, but it works, kept the player on the path, didnt sidetrack, and in the end he got what he wanted, but at a cost of a hard choice.

Should players be able to sell magic items? Sure. In a large town, or small town. If the players have a magical longsword they dont want, and a local hedge wizard will trade for a few potions, let them. Or maybe a local peddler will give his life savings of 1000g to turn a profit in a city... but its the exception, not the norm. And maybe when the PCs get into a city they can track down a black market dealer, or renown antiquities and rare item collector, but those prices are what you, the DM, sets. How fun is it for a PC to visit an antique store, surreptitiously cast detect magic, and get a magic item for a few hundred gold! Pickers unite!

But, I stress, Do not let them walk into a monty hual magic store Wal-Mart and go to town. It ruins the entire feel of 5E.

In fact, a great adventure or entire campaign can be had around a group of adventures not trying to save the world from ancient dragons or elemental evil, but simply following leads on finding magic items and collecting them.

 

[Chocolategravy]

I'm considering the default as "any magic item which the PCs sell, to anyone other than a trusted ally, ends up in the hands of the cult of Tiamat". That could be hilarious, a few sessions later.

PCs love selling the same thing twice. Filthy filthy lucre.

At the core of this issue is that magic items specially do not have value. In fact the core rules tells us magic items cannot be sold or traded 99% of the time. So that leaves the DM to figure out that 1% of circumstances.

Quite the contrary, the rules are it's an investigation check and there is a table of sell prices. DMG 129

But, I stress, Do not let them walk into a monty hual magic store Wal-Mart and go to town. It ruins the entire feel of 5E.

Again it's the reverse, having kobolds have magic items as per the loot distribution rules in the DMG and NOT have large towns full of powerful guilds, military and magical forces to NOT have available magic items seems HUGELY artificial and immersion breaking.

In fact, a great adventure or entire campaign can be had around a group of adventures not trying to save the world from ancient dragons or elemental evil, but simply following leads on finding magic items and collecting them.

A legendary item, sure, a common or uncommon item, not so quest worthy.

 

[Astrosicebear]

PCs love selling the same thing twice. Filthy filthy lucre.

[/FONT][/COLOR]

Quite the contrary, the rules are it's an investigation check and there is a table of sell prices. DMG 129


Again it's the reverse, having kobolds have magic items as per the loot distribution rules in the DMG and NOT have large towns full of powerful guilds, military and magical forces to NOT have available magic items seems HUGELY artificial and immersion breaking.



A legendary item, sure, a common or uncommon item, not so quest worthy.

Nitpicky, but there are multiple places, PHB, DMG, that say exactly what I said. Yes there are guidelines and rules in the DMG if the players want to ATTEMPT to sell a magic item, but no where does each individual item have a specific cost like previous editions. DMG 135 says it plainly, "Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise, most magic items are so rare that they aren't available for purchase." It continues..."In a large city with an academy of magic or major temple,. buying and selling magic items might be possible, at your discretion."

Clearly the intention is for magic items to be rare (hence the rarities) and not like previous editions. Kobolds should not have magic items as monsters. Maybe one might carry a strange scroll it found, or a potion of healing, but that is it according to the charts in the DMG. You wont see kobolds carrying around magic weapons if you follow the DMG guidelines. Yes you can roll a low-level treasure HORDE that can contain items, but that's a horde, not individual.


5E takes away all reliance on the magical might of armies, any time playing the system should tell you that. A sufficient group of guards can easily overwhelm a much stronger foe. (Take the intro to Greenest in HOTDQ for a specific example, a dragon is clearly worried about lots of arrows). No longer does every militia watch hand out +1 swords and armor. Clearly the design conceit of 5E is that magic items are really rare (save for some potions and scrolls) and that emphasis is plastered all over the core books.

Again, you can play your game in any way you and your players enjoy. The system can handle it. But what you suggest is not the intended norm.

 

[Riley37]

Well, my fighter, who uses a greataxe, went looking in Waterdeep for a magical greataxe... after a few bards, and a decent roll, he found two rumors... one, that the northlanders use greataxes (linking to a chapter in ROT) and that a greataxe of magical renown was buried with a king Dedirius somewhere down south (also links to a ROT chapter). Pretty clever for a DM, but also pretty transparent, but it works, kept the player on the path, didnt sidetrack, and in the end he got what he wanted, but at a cost of a hard choice.

Thanks. That's a helpful answer for my purposes!

There is a thread about PCs buying and selling magic items *in general*. It has exceeded 40 pages of posts. If you wanna jump into that swamp, go for it. (It includes some good posts, but you might skim some less-useful posts along the way.)

I started a new thread for the *specific* question of magic items in Tyranny of Dragons. Please tell me about what can be bought and sold in Phlan, in Waterdeep, in other locations *specific to Faerun and to Tyranny of Dragons*. Please tell me about magic items *specific to Tyranny of Dragons* which have prompted interesting or difficult choices.

Do any of the ToD magic items prompt jealousy of the PC who ends up with them?

Do any of them seem useless to all the PCs, useful only as trade goods (that is, sell them off)?

Have any of them significantly changed the outcome of fights, or changed the storyline on a wider scale?

Would you encourage equipping more of the dragon cultists with +1 weapons, so that the PCs end up all equipping +1 weapons?

Thanks!

 

[Chocolategravy]

Nitpicky, but there are multiple places, PHB, DMG, that say exactly what I said. Yes there are guidelines and rules in the DMG if the players want to ATTEMPT to sell a magic item, but no where does each individual item have a specific cost like previous editions. DMG 135 says it plainly, "Unless you decide your campaign works otherwise, most magic items are so rare that they aren't available for purchase." It continues..."In a large city with an academy of magic or major temple,. buying and selling magic items might be possible, at your discretion."

You're confusing buying with selling. PCs have no problem selling in the rules. Because there are time requirements to sell, the PCs should hire agents to find buyers for them. Most big cities will have such things already as they will have auction houses that handle things more expensive than most magic items all the time.

And if you want your world to be at all plausible and not immersion breaking, there shouldn't be buying problems either.

Clearly the intention is for magic items to be rare (hence the rarities) and not like previous editions. Kobolds should not have magic items as monsters. Maybe one might carry a strange scroll it found, or a potion of healing, but that is it according to the charts in the DMG. You wont see kobolds carrying around magic weapons if you follow the DMG guidelines. Yes you can roll a low-level treasure HORDE that can contain items, but that's a horde, not individual.

Intelligent creatures will make use of the magic items from the tribe's horde if able.

Again, you can play your game in any way you and your players enjoy. The system can handle it. But what you suggest is not the intended norm.

What I suggest is RAW. It is also how every previous edition worked and it was a stated goal of 5E to keep the feel of previous editions.

 

[aramis erak]

If you're playing in an Adventurer's League context, you cannot sell them to NPCs, period.
Otherwise, look at the rarity, and pick a number based upon the table in the DMG...

 

[Coredump]

I'm running a group which has played "Hoard of the Dragon Queen" (intro only), "Tales Trees Tell", most of "Defiance in Phlan", "Courting of Fire", and "Shadow over the Moonsea". Which of the magic items from those stories should the PCs be able to sell in Phlan, at what prices, and with what side effects or unintended consequences? Which of the named, established NPCs in Phlan are likely buyers?

So... are you playing in AL? Or did you just snag the AL adventures for a home campaign.

In AL, you can't sell them at all.

For a home game... what do they want to sell? Most of those items are at least usable. More usable than the gold they will get in return.

 

[Leatherhead]

The problem with the magic items in premade adventures is that they probably won't fit your character concept. Or even worse, mechanically clash with things like feats and class powers, making them an albatross.

Getting a magic longsword is nice and all, but if nobody in the party uses longswords, then it's only use is as a form of currency. The worst "fit" is magical medium armor, not even all the people who can use it want to use it.

 

[Astrosicebear]

Thanks. That's a helpful answer for my purposes!

There is a thread about PCs buying and selling magic items *in general*. It has exceeded 40 pages of posts. If you wanna jump into that swamp, go for it. (It includes some good posts, but you might skim some less-useful posts along the way.)

I started a new thread for the *specific* question of magic items in Tyranny of Dragons. Please tell me about what can be bought and sold in Phlan, in Waterdeep, in other locations *specific to Faerun and to Tyranny of Dragons*. Please tell me about magic items *specific to Tyranny of Dragons* which have prompted interesting or difficult choices.

Do any of the ToD magic items prompt jealousy of the PC who ends up with them?

Do any of them seem useless to all the PCs, useful only as trade goods (that is, sell them off)?

Have any of them significantly changed the outcome of fights, or changed the storyline on a wider scale?

Would you encourage equipping more of the dragon cultists with +1 weapons, so that the PCs end up all equipping +1 weapons?

Thanks!

Sorry to get off point.

Specifically, no where in the entire TOD campaign does it specifically state in text a NPC willing to buy magic items, or any that sell them (beyond some providing healing potions).

If a PC gets a hold of Haazirawn, Rezmir's sword (Which they can do as early as chapter 6) it can be quite a game changer. My Barbarian player got it after disarming her in chapter 6, and hes tearing up the damage, but its not completely game breaking.

The Dragon Masks should almost never be acquired, so you dont have to worry about those.
The rest of the items are pretty cool but nothing that people will fight over (until maybe later in TOD when there is a Belt of Hill Giant Strength).

I suggest changing the hoard of the dragons, all of them to fit your party. Cloudchasers hoard at the end of the first book is pathetic for items, but it sorta makes sense. Coinage and wealth was being transported , and the items wouldve been picked out. But I suggest changing it to give your party what they are looking for, but not everyone should have a magic weapon.

My party defeated Rath Modar and Azbera Jos in SKyreach Castle, and got Rath's Staff of Fire... i was worried, but none of them can attune to it... oh well, but that could be a huge game changer, be careful with that one.

I would not encourage changing or adding magic items unless a PC is really struggling. 5E doesnt require them, and there are very few monsters in the story that are even resistant to nonmagical, and none that are outright immune to nonmagical.

If the PCs do wish to trade/sell they really wont have time until the first chapter in Rise of TIamat, and by that time they are in Waterdeep, possibly with a dragon hoard in tow. Through some inquiries, role play and quick checks they should be able to trade/barter for what they want... within reason. They will only be level 8, so I'd rule that anything common, uncommon is available, and roll on the rare charts to see what they might be able to get.