[GUIDE] Born to be Wild, a sorcerer guide.

[mellored]

Cool. Gut reaction is that you underrate crown of stars, but I haven't closely considered the math and mechanics of it yet.

Disintigrate (6th level + quicken)
75 damage

Crown of stars (7th level)
26 per turn = 78 in a 3 round battle

Spiritual Weapon (7th level)
32 per turn = 96 in a 3 round battle

Quicken + Firebolt + fire dragon sorc (convert a 7th level slot for SP).
21.5 per turn = 64.5 in 3 round (+ 1 SP left over).

Sunbeam (6th level, AoE, concentration, action, half on miss)
27 per turn = 81 in 3 rounds.

All (except sunbeam) do nothing on a miss, so accuracy not included.

So unless you get multiple battles worth, something I find dubious even with an hour, I don't see it as all to great.

Are you going to look at the racial feats as well? Elven accuracy seems like an obvious winner, especially for wild magic.

Most spells don't use advantage. And there's really no other feat that makes/breaks anything. Unless you have an odd score.

But fair point about wild. And shadow as well. So I'll add that one.

 

[mellored]

Cool. Gut reaction is that you underrate crown of stars, but I haven't closely considered the math and mechanics of it yet.

Is crown of stars twinable?

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

Disintigrate (6th level + quicken)
75 damage

Crown of stars (7th level)
26 per turn = 78 in a 3 round battle

Spiritual Weapon (7th level)
32 per turn = 96 in a 3 round battle

Firebolt + fire dragon sorc (convert a 7th level slot for 3 rounds of quicken + 1 SP).
21.5 per turn = 64.5 in 3 round

Sunbeam (6th level, AoE, concentration, action, half on miss)
27 per turn = 81 in 3 rounds.

All (except sunbeam) do nothing on a miss, so accuracy not included.

So unless you get multiple battles worth, something I find dubious even with an hour, I don't see it as all to great.

Your rationale for making Melf's minute meteors blue was that it does 50% more damage than fireball at 3rd level. Well, crown of stars does 370% more damage than fire storm at 7th level, 569% more than sunburst at 8th, and 104% more than meteor swarm at 9th. Unlike Melf's, it doesn't require concentration, and it lasts six times as long.

The net effect of crown of stars is to give you 7/9/11 quickened spells within the next hour, at the cost of 7/8/9 sorcery points instead of 14/18/22, while upgrading your fire bolt from 3/4d10 fire damage to 4d12 radiant. Accuracy should be a consideration, since not all save types (and AC) are equal, attacks can crit, and advantage on attacks is more common and cheaper than disadvantage on enemy saves. So:

Sunbeam: Con save, concentration, can't be scaled up, risk of friendly fire, and you're quickening anyway if you want to cast other spells.
Fire bolt + dragon bonus: I agree, crown of stars is better than fire bolts while quickening other spells, even for fire dragons. That makes it a whole lot better for the other 4.8 sorcerer subclasses.
Spiritual weapon: Double check the scaling. A 7th-level spiritual weapon does 3d8 + spellcasting mod. 18.5 * 3 = 55.5 damage. It's also not available to most sorcerers.
Quickened disintegrate: All right, and what are you doing with your action? Fire bolt? Twinned fire bolt? Well, if you had used your bonus action for crown of stars, you could cast a twinned disintegrate with your action. That's 176 damage with crown of stars, 108 without.

Beyond all that, at bottom I disagree with the calculation that you need to use it more than three times to get value. Crown of stars allows you to front-load damage and to use other spells with metamagic when you would otherwise be quickening them. It improves both damage per round and flow.

I also disagree about seeing more than one combat in an hour. In my experience, it is very common to fight, for example, undead minions in the first room, henchlings in the second, a stronger undead in the third, overseers in the fourth, and the boss in the fifth.

Most spells don't use advantage. And there's really no other feat that makes/breaks anything. Unless you have an odd score.

But fair point about wild. And shadow as well. So I'll add that one.

Greater invisibility + scorching ray should be in every sorcerer's playbook. Heck, dip two levels of hexblade warlock, cast eldritch blast and quickened scorching ray from invisibility with elven accuracy, and enjoy a 27.1% chance to crit on each attack.

Is crown of stars twinable?

Nope, but neither are any of the spells you just compared it to.

 

[mellored]

Your rationale for making Melf's minute meteors blue was that it does 50% more damage than fireball at 3rd level.

Fair. Though melfs is an AoE that can often hit 2 people and does half-on-a-miss.
Crown of starts is single target with nothing if you miss.
So your %'s aren't a fair comparison.

Still, I'll bump it to blue.

Greater invisibility + scorching ray should be in every sorcerer's playbook

Sorcerer's are not usually the best target for greater invisibility.

Eldrich blast deals 31.5 per round. (*3 rounds for a quicken = with a 7th level slot). So if your dipping hexblade, crown of stars loses to that.
And multiclassing means you're behind on wish. So it'a a heafty trade off.

Spiritual weapon: Double check the scaling.

Wow... I've been playing that one wrong for a while...

Nope, but neither are any of the spells you just compared it to.

Firebolt is.
But that's less direct than quicken.

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

Sorcerers are not usually the best target for greater invisibility.

I would be curious to know why you say this. I consider greater invisibility + scorching ray our best single-target option outside of disintegrate.

Eldrich blast deals 31.5 per round. (*3 rounds for a quicken = with a 7th level slot). So if you're dipping hexblade, crown of stars loses to that.

True, one of the most notoriously powerful multiclass combos beats out crown of stars. A single-classed sorcerer, of course, would not have eldritch blast, and a single-classed warlock would not have quickened spell, so it remains a good spell for either of them individually. As you point out, multiclassing has its drawbacks as well.

The point I was making was about elven accuracy and its application in crit fishing. Even without the larger crit range of the hexblade, the feat raises your crit chance to greater than 14.25% on advantaged attacks.

 

[mellored]

I would be curious to know why you say this. I consider greater invisibility + scorching ray our best single-target option outside of disintegrate.

Sharpshooter.
1d8+15 * 2 attacks = 39 * .5 = 19.5
+ greater invisbility = 39 * .75 = 29.25
GI adds +9.75 damage.

Scorcing ray
2d6 * 3 attacks * = 21 * .65 = 13.65
+ greater invisibility = 21 * .8775 =18.4275
GI adds +4.7775

So you get double the damage, and get to keep your level 2 if you cast it on an archer instead of yourself. And that doesn't include action surge, hunter's mark, or whatever.

Just for completness

Eldrich Blast
1d10+5*2 = 21
...so same as scorching ray, but without expending spell slots.
(Though warlocks probably have their own advantage).


So yea, I don't see the sorcerer as the prime target to put the GI on. Unless you're alone. In which case, i would be using subtle and not reveal your location with scorching ray, so not even then.

The point I was making was about elven accuracy and its application in crit fishing. Even without the larger crit range of the hexblade, the feat raises your crit chance to greater than 14.25% on advantaged attacks.

That's total. You would have 9.75% chance with just advantage. So the feat only adds 4.5% chance to crit, to a single spell or 2, if you also are using another spell for advantage.
* 4d12 = +1.17 crit damage.

Or to be complete.
4d12 * .65 = 16.9
4d12 * .8775 = 22.815
4d12 * .957125= 24.88525 (+ 1.17 crit)
GI adds +5.915 damage.
EA adds +3.24025 damage
= +9.15525 total.

Still better off using GI on the fighter. But does beat a warlock.

As for the other cost...
Half-elf,
8 Str, 16 Dex, 16 Con, 8 Int, 8 Wis, 15+2 Cha + elven archery (18 Cha)
vs
8 str, 16 dex, 16 con, 8 int, 10 Wis, 14+2 Cha + 2 Cha (18 cha)

So your trading out +1 Wis for elven accuracy. Not bad on that front.

 

[gyor]

The value of Metamagics and spells vary greaterly between subclasses. Heighten Spell is awesome for many builds, blue at least, but it red for Shadow Sorcerers, because Hound of Ill Omen does what but does 10 times better, for the same price.

Extend Spell is much better for Divine Souls then other Sorcerers because they have far more spells with durations like 10 minutes, an hour, even some like Aid and Guardian of Faith last for 8 hours without concentration. Btw the healing that Aid grants, which you can cast before battle, is gravy, its real value is in boosting the maxium HPs of 3 characters for 8 hours (16 with extend spell), which is great especially for front line squishy characters like Rogues and Monks and Ranger Beast Companions.

Distant Spell is also better for Divine Souls then other because cleric spells are more likely to be touch range like revify, cure wounds, lesser restoration, and so on.

Temple of the Gods is also worth getting if your a Divine Soul. Its a safer fortress then Mighty Fortress, a meterite spell can hit it and it won't be damaged, it can be far more flexible in size, healing boosted within, ect... It perfect for resting and healing safely and there are other creative uses for it.

 

[Cognomen's Cassowary]

Sharpshooter.
1d8+15 * 2 attacks = 39 * .5 = 19.5
+ greater invisbility = 39 * .75 = 29.25
GI adds +9.75 damage.

Scorcing ray
2d6 * 3 attacks * = 21 * .65 = 13.65
+ greater invisibility = 21 * .8775 =18.4275
GI adds +4.7775

So you get double the damage, and get to keep your level 2 if you cast it on an archer instead of yourself. And that doesn't include action surge, hunter's mark, or whatever.

I think you are mostly right in this specific example, though you are glossing over some finer points--the sorcerer could actually nova for more damage by casting scorching ray out of a 4th- or 5th-level slot, and more yet by quickening and throwing out a fire bolt. Though the sorcerer would be more likely to lose concentration if not invisible, the sharpshooter would have the higher sustained damage.

However, I don't think that sharpshooter by itself suffices to prove that sorcerers are not usually the best target for greater invisibility. I do not believe that every party has a character built to maximize one of the most-banned and -houseruled feats in the game. Or two such characters, if the sorcerer can twin greater invis. In fact, I have never seen a character with sharpshooter or GWM in actual play; I only see those feats talked about a lot on these forums. If I can find the time, I might do some math on more-common builds to see how they compare.

And, of course, if the sorcerer has elven accuracy . . .
Scorching ray - 0 damage on a miss/7 on a hit/14 on a crit
35/60/5 base = 4.9 damage per ray
12.25/78/9.75 with advantage = 6.825 damage per ray
4.29/81.45/14.26 with elven accuracy = 7.70 damage per ray

That sorcerer can out-damage the sharpshooter with a 3rd-level scorching ray. A 6th-level scorching ray will average 7.7 * 7 = 53.9 damage. A 6th-level disintegrate averages 75 * 0.65 = 48.75, so I think the crit-fishing approach has some merit.

Moving back to the absurdly theorycrafty realm of the hexblade multiclass for the fun of it, let's throw on the hexblade curse.

0 damage on a miss/10 on a hit/17 on a crit (assuming a +3 proficiency bonus)
4.29/68.61/27.1 = 11.47 damage per ray

That one outdoes the sharpshooter with a 2nd-level scorching ray.

The 6th-level scorching ray would then average 80.28 damage. Not bad. Tack on another 30-ish points if someone else casts greater invisibility on you so you can concentrate on the hex spell. Add on fire-dragon bonus if you like. Come to think of it, even without advantage and elven accuracy, the hexblade's scorching ray would deal 7.2 damage, so just over 50 at 6th level. I'm starting to think that a dip into hexblade is a little too good.

 

[Zmajdusa]

Consider that with hexblade you can grab improved pact weapon, thirsting blade, and eldritch smite all by 5th level as a hexblade. You would get 2 attacks and could then quicken an eldritch blast, and all 4 attacks that round would crit on a 19 or 20.

 

[ppaladin123]

So is a 1 level dip in hexblade just the default for sorcerers now (especially non-Dragon)? Seems like the armor/shields alone are enough to justify it.