D&D 5E Guns and D&D - are we doing it wrong? An alternative

[ezo]

Never heard of Appendix N, huh?

Of course I have, I just didn't ever bother reading 90+% of the stuff on HIS list.

 

[Incenjucar]

My solution has just been: A gun is a very loud crossbow.

 

[Reynard]

Of course I have, I just didn't ever bother reading 90+% of the stuff on HIS list.

The boring bog standard medieval fantasy is really an artifact of the late 70s and 80s and partially the fault of D&D.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Quick timeline:
Plated armor (about 1250)
Hand cannon (about 1400)
Full plate armor (also about 1400)
Arquebus (about 1475-1500?)

corrected timeline (for europe):
Hand cannon (1327ish)
Full plate (1420ish)
Arquebus (1475ish, though if we include the Ottomans this could be anywhere from 1443 to 1465, probably 1465)

 

[ezo]

The boring bog standard medieval fantasy is really an artifact of the late 70s and 80s and partially the fault of D&D.

Your opinion. For mine it is the quintessenial base of great D&D. While some players might enjoy the occasional trip into the lands of silly and weird, for me it has always been just that: silly and weird (and a waste of my time).

Even the cartoon episodes in the 80s had part with spaceships, "laser lances", etc. and I always found those episodes to be the worst ones.

corrected timeline (for europe):
Hand cannon (1327ish)
Full plate (1420ish)
Arquebus (1475ish, though if we include the Ottomans this could be anywhere from 1443 to 1465, probably 1465)

LOL ok. So by "corrected" you pretty much agreed with mine, with the excpetion of the hand cannon... which was a type-o on my part . Thanks for pointing that out, I've corrected my post.

 

[Minigiant]

I also think a lot of people's frustrations spring from hit points -- you 'hit' the enemy with your attack, but it doesn't actually do anything except make a number go down. You can describe this in terms of wearing down their defences as they dodge or deflect attacks, but it's always a bit awkward at the best of times, and it becomes really jarring when firearms are involved.

That's 75% of it.

Sword hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter parried it and is more tired.
Axe hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter dodged it and is more wore down.
Javelin hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter blocked it with their shield and hurt their hand.
Arrow hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter takes arrow to the shoulder. Arrow is stinking out the fighter's shoulder.


Bullet hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP.

Whether the Fighter Parries, Dodges, Blocks, or Takes a gun's bullet is determined by genre.
Jack Sparrow dodges.
Mihawk parries.
Dread Pirate Roberts takes it to the shoulder.

And to some people, their preferred genre has the Fighter unable to do any of them.
Shoot Blackbeard. Blackbeard dies.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I played in an apocalyptic modern campaign (probably over a decade ago at this point) that used heavily modded D&D rules.

As best as I can recollect, guns dealt crossbow-ish damage, but had three range increments.

The least favorable range prevented you from adding your modifier to the damage.
The "normal" range worked in the expected manner(add your modifier).
The optimal range (which was referred to as the wheelhouse) added extra damage. It was either an extra die of damage or double your modifier (I'm fuzzy on it, but I think it was probably double mod).

Pistols tended to have the wheelhouse at short range.
Carbines had the wheelhouse at mid range.
Rifles generally had the wheelhouse at long range.
The least favorable and normal ranges varied by weapon.

It was a fun and interesting system that made movement and positioning very important. You always wanted to be in your wheelhouse if at all possible, and to avoid your least favorable range.

I'm not sure whether it would work for regular D&D, but I thought I'd mention it since it's one of the better systems that I've seen.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

I played in an apocalyptic modern campaign (probably over a decade ago at this point) that used heavily modded D&D rules.

As best as I can recollect, guns dealt crossbow-ish damage, but had three range increments.

The least favorable range prevented you from adding your modifier to the damage.
The "normal" range worked in the expected manner(add your modifier).
The optimal range (which was referred to as the wheelhouse) added extra damage. It was either an extra die of damage or double your modifier (I'm fuzzy on it, but I think it was probably double mod).

Pistols tended to have the wheelhouse at short range.
Carbines had the wheelhouse at mid range.
Rifles generally had the wheelhouse at long range.
The least favorable and normal ranges varied by weapon.

It was a fun and interesting system that made movement and positioning very important. You always wanted to be in your wheelhouse if at all possible, and to avoid your least favorable range.

I'm not sure whether it would work for regular D&D, but I thought I'd mention it since it's one of the better systems that I've seen.

aside from the fact that i can't think of a way to write out that property without it becoming an absolute nightmare or just making them their own segments on a weapons table, that's...actually really cool. reminds me of battlefield 1's sweet spot system for bolt action rifles.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Let's remember in the real life firearms require daily maintenance, and if you shoot too much can be affected by overheating. You could find some youtube video about myths of firearms in videogames.

And somebody could create for D&D a homebred biotechnologic weapon, like the ones used by tiranids in W40K or the restaurant scene in eXistenZ. A silenter crossbow reloaded by artificial muscles shouldn't be so weir. In the real life the pistol shrimp has a powerful attack.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

That's 75% of it.

Sword hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter parried it and is more tired.
Axe hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter dodged it and is more wore down.
Javelin hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter blocked it with their shield and hurt their hand.
Arrow hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP. The fighter takes arrow to the shoulder. Arrow is stinking out the fighter's shoulder.


Bullet hits Fighter bringing them from 15HP to 7HP.

Whether the Fighter Parries, Dodges, Blocks, or Takes a gun's bullet is determined by genre.
Jack Sparrow dodges.
Mihawk parries.
Dread Pirate Roberts takes it to the shoulder.

And to some people, their preferred genre has the Fighter unable to do any of them.
Shoot Blackbeard. Blackbeard dies.

Look at many series.. . Most shots just miss the main persons. So depending on interpretation, HP could be seen as plot armor. Grazing shots at best. Sometimes they still act nearly healthy after being seriously shot after a short breather.

So it is never: shoot = dead. In most cases it is the last after many shots.