Half celestial general template confusion

[Missywelden]

I wanna make a half celestial elf cleric. What I don't understand about the half celestial template is the skill part. It says half celestial gain skill points as an outsider with (8+int)x(HD+3) and I don't include hd from class levels. Now isn't a base races hd gained from the class level, or is it assumed that before I got the cleric class level I had half a hit dice and I had certain skills before cleric.

The other thing is I get these skill points from the base creatures list as class skills. What is the skill list for an elf? Where do I find that?

I've always found this stuff confusing. Like the whole hp thing too. My acutal ecl is 5 with the cleric level, but I only have 8 + con hp, which means I'll die really easily.

Any advice would be appreciated

 

[Alchemist]

I wanna make a half celestial elf cleric. What I don't understand about the half celestial template is the skill part. It says half celestial gain skill points as an outsider with (8+int)x(HD+3) and I don't include hd from class levels. Now isn't a base races hd gained from the class level, or is it assumed that before I got the cleric class level I had half a hit dice and I had certain skills before cleric.

The other thing is I get these skill points from the base creatures list as class skills. What is the skill list for an elf? Where do I find that?

I've always found this stuff confusing. Like the whole hp thing too. My acutal ecl is 5 with the cleric level, but I only have 8 + con hp, which means I'll die really easily.

Any advice would be appreciated

This skills discussion only relates to non-class hd; All of your characters HD come from cleric levels, so it's not an issue to you. If you were making an advanced half celestial dire wolf, this would be relevant.

And yeah, you will be easy to kill. That's the sucky part about big, beefy templates and being a character.

Edit: The other thing to point out is that you are considered a 5th level character, but aren't as powerful as a 5th level cleric. The suck is mighty. The alternative is to look to the Savage Progressions for the half fiend and adapt it to the half celestial. That way you can ease into the whole deal. And you might want to take advantage of the level adjustment reduction scheme from Unearthed Arcana (p. 18); it worked well for our party of Aasimar and Tieflings.

 

[pawsplay]

Any advice would be appreciated

Keep your Level Adjustment to less than half of your ECL.

 

[Arkhandus]

The listings in templates for a creature's Hit Dice, base attack bonuses, base saving throw bonuses, skill points, and feats are all, always, only for applying to racial hit dice.

Generally any creature that would normally have 1 HD or less gets that racial hit die replaced by their first class level. So an elf, for instance, does not receive any racial hit dice. They always get class levels instead, even if just a level of Commoner or Warrior or whatever.

Now if you applied the Half-Celestial Template to something that actually has multiple racial hit dice (like an Ogre), those racial HD (only) would be converted to Outsider hit dice and get the related alterations.


I still can't understand why I get these kinds of questions myself when I DM; I was asked the same stuff when one of my players wanted to play a Half-Dragon. My Rhunaria webpage has a revised version of the Half-Dragon template, in which I clearly state in many lines that particular adjustments are only applied to racial hit dice. And yet I still get asked if the PC's class levels get their Hit Dice changed to d12s...... *twitch* NO!

 

[Arkhandus]

And as the others said: Generally it's better not to use a template or race if it has a Level Adjustment or Effective Character Level Adjustment that's much greater than the number of actual levels and hit dice you start with. If you start at level 1 or 2, you should only use a race or template of +1 or +0 Level Adjustment; if you start at 3rd or 4th level you might be fine using a race or template of +2 Level Adjustment; etc.

In your case, yes, since you used a high-Level Adjustment template, and started the game at low level, you're going to be very easy to kill for the first several levels. Stay well away from the front lines of battle, use a ranged weapon, and be very careful not to rush into melee range to heal allies (wait until you don't have to put yourself into a threatened area to heal them; someone else can at least drag the ally closer to you while others hold the enemies back, hopefully). This will likely have to be your tactic until you reach the upper-middle levels. Once you have around 8 or 9 levels of Cleric you should be able to risk going closer and using melee spells.

Also, look to Savage Species (I don't recall exactly but Unearthed Arcana may also have this rule) to find the rules for removing your character's Level Adjustment gradually over time.

 

[javcs]

And as the others said: Generally it's better not to use a template or race if it has a Level Adjustment or Effective Character Level Adjustment that's much greater than the number of actual levels and hit dice you start with. If you start at level 1 or 2, you should only use a race or template of +1 or +0 Level Adjustment; if you start at 3rd or 4th level you might be fine using a race or template of +2 Level Adjustment; etc.

In your case, yes, since you used a high-Level Adjustment template, and started the game at low level, you're going to be very easy to kill for the first several levels. Stay well away from the front lines of battle, use a ranged weapon, and be very careful not to rush into melee range to heal allies (wait until you don't have to put yourself into a threatened area to heal them; someone else can at least drag the ally closer to you while others hold the enemies back, hopefully). This will likely have to be your tactic until you reach the upper-middle levels. Once you have around 8 or 9 levels of Cleric you should be able to risk going closer and using melee spells.

Also, look to Savage Species (I don't recall exactly but Unearthed Arcana may also have this rule) to find the rules for removing your character's Level Adjustment gradually over time.

QFT.

It's in Unearthed Arcana, but requires gaining current LAx3 Hit Die to reduce the LA by 1.

 

[moritheil]

Any advice would be appreciated

Keep your Level Adjustment to less than half of your ECL.

Agreed; this is a very good rule of thumb to ensure suvivability. I can't tell you how much the others in my group cringe when we see someone heading into an epic game with only 4HD of actual levels.

 

[javcs]

Agreed; this is a very good rule of thumb to ensure suvivability. I can't tell you how much the others in my group cringe when we see someone heading into an epic game with only 4HD of actual levels.

They're just asking to die. On a minimum damage hit.

What class was that char?

 

[moritheil]

They're just asking to die. On a minimum damage hit.

What class was that char?

I believe a couple of different classes, actually. Mind you, when you only have a few HD, there's only so high your base saves can go, even when you multiclass. It had enough immunities to survive the obligatory admixed fireballs, but an ice storm or just about any single target spell would have taken it out.

I can't remember if it had regeneration . . . but even if it did, it wasn't very useful.