half-celestials

[lottrbacchus]

my players are starting a new party after a tpk and i'm letting them play half-celestials as it fits perfectly with what is going on in the game world. but half-celestials all have wings in 3.5 and i don't want to allow that- it would change too much of the game dynamic if they can fly everywhere. but i also don't want to take away something that may have been integral in the calculation of the ecl +4.

sooo- would half-celectials still be ecl +4 without wings?

if not, would they be ecl +3 with all of the other powers still intact?

or, what would a suitable replacement for wings be?

 

[Alzrius]

Savage Species indicates that wings are worth a +1 level adjustment, if I recall correctly. Given that, you could just snip the wings, and make it LA +3.

Here's a template class for the half-fiend (the article says it's basically the same for the half-celestial). You can just let characters take the first three levels in the half-celestial version of the class, and deny them the last level (which is wings and a few other minor bonuses).

 

[lottrbacchus]

Savage Species indicates that wings are worth a +1 level adjustment, if I recall correctly. Given that, you could just snip the wings, and make it LA +3.

Here's a template class for the half-fiend (the article says it's basically the same for the half-celestial). You can just let characters take the first three levels in the half-celestial version of the class, and deny them the last level (which is wings and a few other minor bonuses).

thanks for the tip. savage species is 3.0 though, yeah? it is a good base to look at. one reason the players want half celestial is for the attribute mods, so knocking off the 4th level would make them sad.

and it looks like ONLY getting rid of the wings and lowering the ecl would be giving them too much. so, going along this path i guess i would need a suggestion of a suitable replacement for the wings...

also note- i did make one adjustment in the characters' favor by making the elf paragon skill list available (they are high elves)

 

[Infiniti2000]

You can't argue it both ways. If having flight changes the game dynamic too much, then it must clearly be worth at least +1 ECL in your game. Isn't that what's important anyway, how it balances out in your game? This isn't an exact science, but what's a critical issue is that all the players have the ECL adjustment. With that in mind, you could easily make it +0 and merely tailor encounters appropriately. The actual ECL adjustment then becomes a moot point for the most part.

 

[MongooseFamiliar]

Anger of Angels has a level breakdown for half-celestials as well. Might take a look at that.

 

[EyeontheMountain]

I would judge that removing wings would make for a +3 LA. This particular LA+3 is going to be brutal for any class, from wizard to powerhouse.

 

[Liquidsabre]

There's a link in my sig to the Half-Celestial template class I worked up based on the half-fiend template class.

 

[lottrbacchus]

thanks all for the replies.

@I2000 - what you say is true but here is more of what was on my mind- i don't want them flying all over the place mainly in 'campaign mode'. there are all sorts of things i want them to meet that they would flat out miss if they flew everywhere.

but then i was concerned about taking away something tactically powerful, so that encounters ranked at party level would often be too challenging. by the same token, i wanted to see how powerful other people think wings are- if they are only part of an ecl +1 (as the templates suggest) then dropping the wings and 1 ecl would make them a bit too powerful.

soooo- in the end i am actually going to drop the wings and give them each another character level (if you here loud woo hooing from central europe, that will be them), because there are only two characters (they each had two characters before, but now only 1). that does drop the party level from 11 to 9, but i believe a party of 4 ninth level characters are stronger than a party of 2 seventh level half celestials.

this is especially true since i requested that they multi-class, and in my experience a straight 7th level character is more powerful (though less flexible) than a 4th/3rd. 4th level cleric spells versus 2nd, etc.

anyhow- thanks again everyone for the replies. i really like this board (though i wish the searh function worked for me...)

 

[Herobizkit]

Here's my question: If everyone is the same race, why use a level adjustment at all?

 

[lottrbacchus]

Here's my question: If everyone is the same race, why use a level adjustment at all?

1) For level advancement.
2) I need to know the party level for planning encounters.
3) To award appropriate experience points after said encounters.