Half-Hobgoblin?

[Friend of the Dork]

Hello

I'm starting a game in the Kingdoms of Kalamar setting. Here Hobgoblins and even half-Hobgoblins are playable races.

Now their attributes have been balanced to 3.0 D&D, but I would like to make them ok for Pathfinder as well.

Hobgoblins I think I will keep as MM except apply a -2 charisma. It fits the other races stats fairly well, and who has ever heard of a charming hobgoblin?

Half Hobgoblins I think I will use rules similar to half-elves and half-orcs. But what racial ability should be used to replace the HE and HO's racial traits?
(mainly Adaptability/Orc Ferocity)

Opinions and advice is appriciated.

 

[pawsplay]

Well, I would certainly start with darkvision 60 feet, as half-humans usually get their parents' superior senses. Then I would add a +2 racial bonus to Stealth, half the hobgoblin's bonus. Hobgoblins don't really have any exotic traits or extra oomph, so I guess the last thing to do would be to figure out how hobgoblin traits would interact with human traits. I'm thinking maybe Toughness as a bonus feat.

As far as hobogoblins go, I wouldn't necessarily give them a Cha penalty. Hobgoblins may not be renowned for being charming, but they are effective leaders and conquerors. In balance terms, although they have an obscene Stealth bonus, they just don't really have a lot going for them compared to standard races, no skill bonuses, weapon familiarity, etc.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

Well, I would certainly start with darkvision 60 feet, as half-humans usually get their parents' superior senses. Then I would add a +2 racial bonus to Stealth, half the hobgoblin's bonus. Hobgoblins don't really have any exotic traits or extra oomph, so I guess the last thing to do would be to figure out how hobgoblin traits would interact with human traits. I'm thinking maybe Toughness as a bonus feat.

As far as hobogoblins go, I wouldn't necessarily give them a Cha penalty. Hobgoblins may not be renowned for being charming, but they are effective leaders and conquerors. In balance terms, although they have an obscene Stealth bonus, they just don't really have a lot going for them compared to standard races, no skill bonuses, weapon familiarity, etc.

Yes Darkvision is given, and I was going to give them +2 Stealth anyway. But really orcs have no "oomph" as well even if Half-Orcs do in PF (disclaimer: I Don't have PF creature book, I use MM). So the race needs some ability on a fairly low power level, nothing better than a free feat but preferably something more hobgobliny. In the setting Hobgovs are renowned for their sense of honor - maybe something inspired by that?

As for the Hobgoblins themselves ,well they do have the benefit of bonus to 2 physical stats, something no PFHB race has. If I simply remove the penalty they might just be TOO good choice for martial characters who don't absolutely need +2 str (which in case only human or hybrids qualify).

Are you saying Dwarves are not effective leaders? -2 cha doesn't matter THAT much and is frankly considered a dump-stat anyway by many players.

The skill bonus to Stealth is great, and that together with the attributes it's not a bad race IMO. I could probably throw in Weapon Familiarity (longsword, battleaxe and spears of any kind.) Hobgoblins are an option and don't really need to be as interesting as the standard races anyway. I was more concerned they might be unbalanced.

Anyway thanks for responding so quickly. Tougness is being considered but if it has to be a feat I might go for Endurance. Or just +2 racial to fortitude saves. Not so interesting though.

 

[pawsplay]

Hobgoblins are mainly known for tactical deviousness and stealth, dominating other humanoids, martial skill, and craftsmanship of weapons and siege engines. Maybe a crafting bonus?

I'm also wondering about the circumstances under which hobgoblins breed. If they come from mixed communities, I'd expect them to be fairly diplomatic and forceful. On the other hand, if they mostly bred from human and hobgoblin slaves, I would expect a high physical endurance and toughness.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

Hobgoblins are mainly known for tactical deviousness and stealth, dominating other humanoids, martial skill, and craftsmanship of weapons and siege engines. Maybe a crafting bonus?

I'm also wondering about the circumstances under which hobgoblins breed. If they come from mixed communities, I'd expect them to be fairly diplomatic and forceful. On the other hand, if they mostly bred from human and hobgoblin slaves, I would expect a high physical endurance and toughness.

Also note they are Lawful (evil). They are good at stealth but not so shady as Bugbears, as Hobs have Fighter as favored class instead (not that it matters in PF).

Hobgoblins in this setting usually breed with their kind, but they do practice slavery alot too. In most human cities Hobgoblins are almost universally mercenaries, soldiers or slaves.

As for craftsmanship there is nothing to indicate that they are any better or worse than humans (unlike dwarves, and maybe elves and gnomes).

They are however known for bravery in battle, discipline, hard drilling, extremely militarized societies (think Spartans). So... any other ideas?

 

[pawsplay]

I'm voting for Toughness. It's not that strong a feat, and it really fits, whether you are talking about hardy blacksmiths, abused slaves, disciplined soldiers, or unusually fierce sorcerers.

 

[Friend of the Dork]

I'm voting for Toughness. It's not that strong a feat, and it really fits, whether you are talking about hardy blacksmiths, abused slaves, disciplined soldiers, or unusually fierce sorcerers.

Ok, duly noted

 

[Set]

Without a list of minor abilities, such as the Dwarf, Gnome and Halfling get, I'd be fine with Hobgoblins having a +2 Dex, +2 Con and no penalty to a stat.

If they are fleshed out, a penalty to Int, Wis or Cha could be viable, for different reasons.

I'm voting for Toughness. It's not that strong a feat, and it really fits, whether you are talking about hardy blacksmiths, abused slaves, disciplined soldiers, or unusually fierce sorcerers.

Endurance would equally fit that theme, and perhaps be a bit less of an 'awesome' feat in that role. (And if the Hobgoblin PC later gets Endurance as a bonus feat, through Ranger levels, for instance, he can choose Diehard, Toughness or Great Fortitude instead.)

Giving them Weapon Familiarity with the Malakbar (KoK PG p. 122), so that they treat it as a Martial Weapon, might also make sense for a minor freebie.

 

[pawsplay]

Those sound like good suggestions to me.

 

[Glade Riven]

Pathfinder half-humans get to choose +2 to any stat, so that is a good starting point for half-hobs.

Hob Character Stats (stats are under OGL) in PRPG Bestiary:

Hobgoblin Characters
Hobgoblins are defined by their class levels—they do not possess racial Hit
Dice. All hobgoblins have the following racial traits.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution: Hobgoblins are fast and hearty.
Darkvision: Hobgoblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
Sneaky: Hobgoblins gain a +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks.
Languages: All hobgoblins begin
play speaking Common and Goblin.
Hobgoblins with high Intelligence
scores can choose any of the following
bonus languages: Draconic, Dwarven,
Infernal, Giant, Orc.

So Hobs don't have a lot, but it's all good. Now, I'm not sure about toughness as an automatic bonus feat. Extra HP is extra HP.
+2 to stealth sounds good.
How about a +2 racial bonus to diplomacy verses goblinoids?

Other than that, does Kingmaker have racial stats for a half-hob? If so, that can be used to fill out the rest of the race nicely.