Halloween costumes -- where is the taste line drawn?

[Kramodlog]

Ah, but the functional bit for our purposes is not the difference between home and business, but the difference between governmental and private.

Whether it is a home or a business, it is still owned by a private entity. There's a basic point about rights and freedoms, which can be summed up as, "Your right to swing your fist about ends at the tip of my nose." Whether it is my home or my business, it is *mine*. So, if you enter into the space (real or virtual) of another private citizen, we have a clash of rights - yours and the owner's. The person with the home-field advantage wins on the matter of personal expression.

Except it doesn't really work like that. Even if both are private property, they are not the same on every aspect of the law. You can say that no black people can come into your home, but you can't say that about your restaurant, you can't discriminate based on skin color even if it is your business (well officially that is).

No one may, through discrimination, inhibit the access of another to public transportation or a public place, such as a commercial establishment, hotel, restaurant, theatre, cinema, park, camping ground or trailer park, or his obtaining the goods and services available there.

This does not apply to the government. It does not have rights, as such, to clash with yours.

Strawman.

 

[Remus Lupin]

You do realize that just throwing out the names of logical fallacies does not mean that your opponent has actually used them, right?

 

[Zombie_Babies]

Danny, Morrus and anyone else I was having a spirited yet civil discussion with, I must apologize now for leaving it. I cite the below two quotes as my reason:

You all do realize that certain folks are only taking part in this discussion out of their own amusement over everyone else's reactions right?

So is that what you're up to? I had no idea you could read my mind. And bro? This was tired back on WotC's board. I thought you'd be able to refrain from stalking us and impugning our character on a new forum. I guess not.

Sure. And, in taking on someone like, say Danny, who is well versed on the subject and can continue such a discussion quite civilly until the other side is well and truly shown to be a troll, ignorant, or deficient in reasoning power, they don't do themselves any favors.

So it's cool for mods to call users trolls? What the kind of place is this? How dare you. You don't know the first thing about me and yet you assume I'm trolling? Remember that conversation we had about respect? This? This is why you don't have mine and won't.

Morrus: Is this really the sort of person you want representing you?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Except it doesn't really work like that. Even if both are private property, they are not the same on every aspect of the law. You can say that no black people can come into your home, but you can't say that about your restaurant, you can't discriminate based on skin color even if it is your business (well officially that is).

The rights in question have a different scope- the legal apples & oranges thing again. The lengths the law will go to to protect your rights as a person of color or as a religious practitioner are much greater than for protecting free speech. That's because the right to free speech is mainly framed in the terms of protection from the government or its agencies as opposed to rights that are protected against government, businesses and even individuals' actions.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

So it's cool for mods to call users trolls? What the kind of place is this? How dare you. You don't know the first thing about me and yet you assume I'm trolling? Remember that conversation we had about respect? This? This is why you don't have mine and won't.

Key word in Umbran's response: "until". Nobody was called a troll.

 

[Morrus]

Danny, Morrus and anyone else I was having a spirited yet civil discussion with, I must apologize now for leaving it. I cite the below two quotes as my reason:



So is that what you're up to? I had no idea you could read my mind. And bro? This was tired back on WotC's board. I thought you'd be able to refrain from stalking us and impugning our character on a new forum. I guess not.



So it's cool for mods to call users trolls? What the kind of place is this? How dare you. You don't know the first thing about me and yet you assume I'm trolling? Remember that conversation we had about respect? This? This is why you don't have mine and won't.

Morrus: Is this really the sort of person you want representing you?

Don't use profanity, please. And yes, an important part - maybe the most important part - of a moderator's job is to evaluate, detect, and prevent trolling (none of which Umbran has done so far - if he thought you were trolling, he'd have warned you, threadbanned you, or similar; your continued presence here indicates otherwise). If you are unclear, you may email me or Umbran.

 

[Kramodlog]

You do realize that just throwing out the names of logical fallacies does not mean that your opponent has actually used them, right?

It can also mean he did. When did I say guberment had rights?

 

[Remus Lupin]

I think you're misunderstanding the point of his argument:

As I read it (correct me if I've got this wrong, Umbran), he's saying that a private entity, either a home or a business, can restrict free speech because the home-or-business owner has a right to decide what's said or done on his/her property. A government cannot restrict speech precisely because it does not, per se, have rights. So the idea that free speech in public requires free speech in private is rooted in an improper identification of private rights with public responsibilities.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

Now I can simply say: Keep it on topic, please. There may still be those who want to discuss the topic of the thread. If you don't, then please leave it be for those who do. Thanks.

*raises hand*

I was one of those people ... right up until you called me a troll.

 

[Zombie_Babies]

You guys are aware that Umbran is a mod and Morrus actually owns the website, right?

Yes, I am. Morrus has behaved in a manner indicative of his position and Umbran has not. That is why I've addressed Morrus one way and Umbran another. He may think his mod badge gives him the right to act like an ass toward others but it does not. I don't know about you but a mod badge isn't enough for me to accept being treated poorly. Then again, I don't think a prince is anything special so maybe I'm kwazy ...