Halloween costumes -- where is the taste line drawn?

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NewJeffCT

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Wrong. Sometimes a costume is just a costume and the good prince wasn't even alive when that uniform meant anything more than snazzy clothes. For god's sake, man, Neville Chamberlain took less grief than you're giving the prince and he did a damned sight more than wear a costume. :p

For good or bad, though, public figures are held to different standards than the general public. And, among public figures in the UK, the royal family is one of the most prominent.
 

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billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I can imagine the uproar, yes. However, that does not mean that said uproar would be justified. People - even (mayhap especially) when acting in unison - can be incredibly stupid.

Does the uproar need to be justified in your opinion? In a free society it certainly does not. People get to make their own decisions of whether the complaints they make are justified.

Ultimately, Prince Harry apologized and the whole incident has pretty much blown over - eight years ago - whereas Neville Chamberlain's foreign policy has pretty much never actually blown over (though most of the outrage over Munich came after the war started - support in Britain was relatively high when he signed the accord).
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Wrong. Sometimes a costume is just a costume and the good prince wasn't even alive when that uniform meant anything more than snazzy clothes. For god's sake, man, Neville Chamberlain took less grief than you're giving the prince and he did a damned sight more than wear a costume. :p

I'm not giving him ANY grief- as I said, and you apparently didn't read:

While I still wouldn't have a personal problem with it if I were in his circle of friends...

I'm just recognizing the political reality of what he did. The reaction he got was entirely predictable.

And as for that uniform meaning nothing more than snazzy clothes these days, you do realize, don't you, that that uniform and variations upon it are still worn in utmost seriousness by some pretty hate-filled people around the US and Europe?

When you're in the public eye, especially at the pinnacle of society, different rules apply, for good and ill. Prince Harry isn't just one of us, he's part of the new era of the British monarchy. As such, he has certain obligations and expectations to fulfill. One of those is to be a shining symbol of his country's glory. Arguably, that is his SOLE actual job.

And in that case, he fell short.
 

Morrus

Well, that was fun
Staff member
I'm not giving him ANY grief- as I said, and you apparently didn't read:



I'm just recognizing the political reality of what he did. The reaction he got was entirely predictable.

And as for that uniform meaning nothing more than snazzy clothes these days, you do realize, don't you, that that uniform and variations upon it are still worn in utmost seriousness by some pretty hate-filled people around the US and Europe?

When you're in the public eye, especially at the pinnacle of society, different rules apply, for good and ill. Prince Harry isn't just one of us, he's part of the new era of the British monarchy. As such, he has certain obligations and expectations to fulfill. One of those is to be a shining symbol of his country's glory. Arguably, that is his SOLE actual job.

And in that case, he fell short.

Nobody cared except Rupert Murdoch's comic-books and the Daily Fail. Manufactured tabloid press outrage.
 


Janx

Hero
Actually Samhain is the end of the sheep herding season when the sheep are brought to winter grounds. Lughnasadh, on August 1st is the Celtic Harvest festival, not Samhain.

Good to know. I reckon some pagans didn't see the difference and thus that bit of lore didn't make it up the chain.

Your info does make more sense, at least in my native climate. End of harvesting is september. November is snowy cold. Makes sense to bring some animals in around that time.
 

Zombie_Babies

First Post
For good or bad, though, public figures are held to different standards than the general public. And, among public figures in the UK, the royal family is one of the most prominent.

So what? He's just a man and anyone that thinks otherwise is a fool. One of the very major things wrong with this world is all the extra crap we've decided to assign to people who are for whatever reason perceived as a station above us. That's wrongheaded. I'm not saying people don't see him as someone who's supposed to be better for whatever dumbass reason they've decided was good enough, I'm saying it's wrong to do so and, therefore, those silly notions shouldn't apply.

Does the uproar need to be justified in your opinion? In a free society it certainly does not. People get to make their own decisions of whether the complaints they make are justified.

And that still doesn't make them right. People feel the Earth is only six thousand years old - and I assure you they have their own justifications for that belief. Is that enough, in your eyes, to make them right?

Anyhoo, lucky for me, I also get to make my own decision about whether or not someone's complaint is justified. In this case, 'he's royalty' just doesn't cut it. Cuz all I have to do to rebut is say 'so what'.

Ultimately, Prince Harry apologized and the whole incident has pretty much blown over - eight years ago - whereas Neville Chamberlain's foreign policy has pretty much never actually blown over (though most of the outrage over Munich came after the war started - support in Britain was relatively high when he signed the accord).

For the first part, he shouldn't have apologized and it's sickening people asked him to. Actually, the fact he apologized for it disgusts me far more than the outfit. For the second, ever hear of hyperbole? Hell, I even added a :p emoticon.

I'm not giving him ANY grief- as I said, and you apparently didn't read:

Exaggeration for effect. C'mon, man. I know you know how we roll and I even gave you a :p emoticon to help.

I'm just recognizing the political reality of what he did. The reaction he got was entirely predictable.

And I'm rejecting that reality as invalid. Predictable or not it doesn't make it right. It's predictable that a skinhead will shout racial slurs toward people of color. That don't make it ok. Two different discussions and while I realize I may have been the cause for the shift (I honestly don't know if that's the case - nor do I care), this line, IMO, is more interesting and more valid. I don't care what dumb people think. I do care, though, that what dumb people think seems to be justification enough in some peoples' eyes for their dumb behavior.

And as for that uniform meaning nothing more than snazzy clothes these days, you do realize, don't you, that that uniform and variations upon it are still worn in utmost seriousness by some pretty hate-filled people around the US and Europe?

*sigh*

And you realize, I hope, that the prince isn't one of those people and wasn't acting like one. That he wore the costume as a costume and not as a uniform and therefore did it for some other reason than hatred. Context, bro. It's kinda really f'in important.

When you're in the public eye, especially at the pinnacle of society, different rules apply, for good and ill. Prince Harry isn't just one of us, he's part of the new era of the British monarchy. As such, he has certain obligations and expectations to fulfill. One of those is to be a shining symbol of his country's glory. Arguably, that is his SOLE actual job.

And in that case, he fell short.

Wut? 'Pinnacle of society'? Who the hell says? He's a man. Nothing more. Whatever BS you've decided to ascribe to him has nothing to do with that reality. You can expect all you want from him beyond what you'd expect from me - that's your business. Thing is, it's also totally unfair to him, to me and to you.
 

Dannyalcatraz

Schmoderator
Staff member
Supporter
Wut? 'Pinnacle of society'? Who the hell says? He's a man. Nothing more. Whatever BS you've decided to ascribe to him has nothing to do with that reality. You can expect all you want from him beyond what you'd expect from me - that's your business. Thing is, it's also totally unfair to him, to me and to you.
He is a mortal man, yes, and thus, not my nor anyone else's inherent superior. Puts his pants on one leg at a time, bleeds, etc. Stipulated and not even argued.

But "Pinnacle of society" in terms of personal wealth, opportunities available just because of who he is as opposed to his merits, connections, etc.- yes, he is a 1%er. With the good comes the bad- he has restrictions on his life none of us will likely face. Despite apparently earning his way up the ranks, he was still withdrawn from deployment, seemingly much to the disappointment of himself and his fellow squad mates.

Life at that level is simply different. Like the saying goes, "The difference between rich and wealthy is that the rich make lots of money...and the wealthy sign their paychecks." My family is rich. But we still have all the concerns of my less fortunate relatives down the road, including balancing the monthly budget. The Monarchy doesn't really have that concern.

Don't pretend you don't understand that reality. Is it fair? Arguable, but I lean towards no. But this is the world we live in, not the normative one.
 
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Remus Lupin

Adventurer
Ultimately it comes down the a question of good taste and good judgment. A costume that is judged to be in bad taste, or is done in a way that shows bad judgment, is really a question that can only be decided by the person donning it and the people viewing it.

If I go to a halloween party dressed, Prince Harry style, as a Nazi officer, and my Jewish friends get upset, I would probably call their reaction perfectly understandable and justifiable. On the other hand, if I went to a party of really easy going friends in a full body stocking with a fig leaf over the ... lower region ... and everyone thinks its a laugh, then I would call my costume a success.

Point being, my choice of costume should give attention to who is going to be there and what their reasonable reaction to my costume might be. A public figure wearing a nazi costume or blackface is bound to attract attention, and much of it will be negative.

As someone else said: You have the right to wear what you like, and if I don't like it, I have the right to express my disapproval. The question you need to ask is whether my disapproval, or that of the general public, is worth the cost of wearing the costume you want.

Though I do agree at least part of the point of Halloween is to enact a carnival atmosphere, explore our shadow side, and overturn the usual rule of power and morality. However, even in that context, there can be going too far.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
People need to understand that there is no right to not be offended.

Sure. But there's no right to not be seen as offensive, either.

A costume is a form of communication. As with any communication, you ought to consider your audience. With your "right" to speak comes a responsibility to do so thoughtfully. Failing to think about what your costume will say to others is, by definition, being thoughtless. If you're going to be willfully thoughtless, then you get what you deserve if you cheese folks off.

And if you're willfully choosing things that will cheese folks off - if you specifically seek the shock value - then you *really* get what you ask for if you cheese them off. You lose your right to be indignant at the response when a particularly bright turnip would know people would be annoyed by the costume.
 

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