D&D 4E Handling godhood in 4E

[Argyle King]

Well...

After 30, why not just have the players choose a second epic destiny? Then simply follow the progression as charted from 21-30 again for a guideline on what you get each level.

The XP Guidelines in the DMG go clear to 40, right?

 

[Netherstorm]

I ran two groups to level 30. Now sometimes we all get together and I run "god" games. To simulate the effects of their godly power, i use a 'power point' system.

Any XP they receive above the level 30 limit are power points
They also receive power points when their followers pray to them (though the PCs must spend power points to answer prayers).

They can spend power points. I have a simple, general guideline for how much things cost:

5,000 Power points: Create/kill a minion
20,000 Power Points: Create/kill a heroic tier creature, enchant a well
50,000 Power Points: Create/kill a paragon tier creature, destroy/create a town or village
100,000 Power Points: Create/kill an epic tier creature (not elites or solos, though), destroy/create a city

It's worked incredibly well. You need a certain type of player for this more abstract system, though - one more interested in doing something cool rather then "winning d&d".

P.S. IMO Epic Tier is awesome and works perfectly. You just need to update the damage expressions. The published adventures have cool ideas, but they get really bogged down in the 4e "fight-fight-fight" syndrome, though.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi UK!

Howdy Halivar!

It's been a long time!

Shows how bad my memory is amigo!

I followed the improved monster CR project for Immortals Handbook very closely, and posted a PHP monster calc web-app for it long ago. Alas, I cannot find it anymore.

Ah well, I have abandoned 3E for the promised lands of 4E. No CR calculations needed.

[Very good advice there, though!

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there!

Wow, so in your games each caste (standard, elite, etc) is worth 20 levels? Just curious, as that's very different from my caste scale.

I think what me means is that elites at epic tier are like standards at heroic tier: You could throw 6 elites at an epic party and they could handle it. Not that upgrading a standard monster to an elite monster increases its level by 20. That's what I'm reading, at least. I could be way off with this.

This.

A typical Heroic Tier party encounter is 5* Standard monsters of the same level.

*Or rather one per PC

But the PCs gain approx. 18.3% power per level over and above monster power.

Thus...

Five Level 6 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 7 Standard Monsters
Five Level 12 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 14 Standard Monsters
Five Level 18 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 21 Standard Monsters
Five Level 24 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 28 Standard Monsters
Five Level 30 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 35 Standard Monsters

...so effectively...

at the epic tier the PCs are between 3-5 levels more powerful than the monsters.

Therefore you could say that:

Five Level 25 PCs (standard encounter equals) Five Level 25 Elite Monsters

This is one of the primary reasons that SOLO monsters are fairly useless in the epic tier (even if you have ways to avoid condition locking). Which is why I created the SUPER_SOLO monster rank.

Wrath of the Titans – Kronos Eternity Publishing

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

But the PCs gain approx. 18.3% power per level over and above monster power.

Ah, I see.

Wrath of the Titans – Kronos Eternity Publishing

Wow, Kronos has quite the stat block! I find it hard to grok that many powers, let alone remember them all in play, but it's fun seeing what other dedicated monster-writers are doing. Your super solos seem to be both more and less than I expected. Well, mostly more.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hey there Tequila Sunrise!

Wow, Kronos has quite the stat block! I find it hard to grok that many powers, let alone remember them all in play, but it's fun seeing what other dedicated monster-writers are doing.

I think that part of the problem is that the Boss Monster, Boss Resilience and Gargantuan Foe traits take up 18 lines between them and that artificially makes the stat-block look more intimidating than it really is in play.

Your super solos seem to be both more and less than I expected. Well, mostly more.

Kronos isn't really a great example of a Super-solo monster (although I still think its a fun and well designed BBEG boss encounter). Typically I would advocate two separate Solo stat-blocks (for a super-solo), in the same way that Lolth (in MM3) is two Elite stat-blocks.

Also I prefer to make Super-solo monsters Mega-size (ie. Godzilla size) or bigger. I have a fun version of Talos (that I am still tweaking here and there) whereby you can end up fighting inside him, outside him and on him.

I just kept Kronos gargantuan because I wanted to keep the idea of him making lava pools and the whole tactical tic-tac-toe element of the encounter.

 

[S'mon]

If I were going to run this campaign I'd start the PCs at 21st level with the Demigod Epic Destiny or similar. That would make them at least as powerful as the Greek or Norse gods (except Zeus) right off the bat. Under battlefield conditions I don't see Ares or Thor in the myths doing anything that Epic PCs couldn't do. Any 'big god stuff' can be handled by tailored Rituals.

One idea: Epic Feats called Portfolios that give Demigod PCs access to a sphere of influence. Each Portfolio unlocks associated Rituals. Eg Zeus' Lightning Portfolio feat allows him access to a Ritual that can create an enormous lightning bolt, capable of slaying dozens of giants in one go.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

I think that part of the problem is that the Boss Monster, Boss Resilience and Gargantuan Foe traits take up 18 lines between them and that artificially makes the stat-block look more intimidating than it really is in play.

For me, it’s mostly the immediate actions that throw me off especially in play. I’m horrible about remembering to use them! So when writing monsters for my own use, I generally avoid immediates.

And I standardize as much as possible. Like instead of all the various “this solo shrugs off X effect every turn as part of Y special ability,” I give all of my elites and solos extra saves at the start of every turn that can be used to end even UENT stuff.

Also I prefer to make Super-solo monsters Mega-size (ie. Godzilla size) or bigger. I have a fun version of Talos (that I am still tweaking here and there) whereby you can end up fighting inside him, outside him and on him.

Now that sounds fun! And gross.

Well I think I’ve hijacked Halivar’s thread long enough. If you’re into more monster design chat, I have a thread all about it.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hello again Tequila Sunrise!

For me, it’s mostly the immediate actions that throw me off especially in play. I’m horrible about remembering to use them! So when writing monsters for my own use, I generally avoid immediates.

I think its easier when you just have the one (solo) monster to play.

And I standardize as much as possible. Like instead of all the various “this solo shrugs off X effect every turn as part of Y special ability,” I give all of my elites and solos extra saves at the start of every turn that can be used to end even UENT stuff.

I felt the need to limit condition locking to various actions. Extra saves are one thing but the monster could still end up stunned for the entire duration of the fight. My way, even if it is stunned it still has other actions, so the fight isn't a complete anti-climax.

Now that sounds fun! And gross.

Well his interiors are clockwork/furnace based.

Well I think I’ve hijacked Halivar’s thread long enough. If you’re into more monster design chat, I have a thread all about it.

I read your pdf document on monster damage. I am not sure I entirely agree with the changes you made to Elite and Solo monsters. Rather than up the damage you should just give them more actions/attacks. But I suppose I can post in the other thread.

 

[ren1999]

Great Idea

You've got a great idea. I loved the Immortals Rules from way back in the day.

I'm thinking about immortals like this. If a character becomes 30th level, then they can chose to become immortal.

There are 5 main 4th edition like powers associated with becoming immortal.

At 1st level Immortal, the character becomes immortal.
At 2nd, if the immortal's body dies, a worshiper can be possessed after a week.
At 3rd level Immortal, the character can resurrect into a physical body. If the body dies, the character must wait a week to resurrect again. The character can still possess a worshiper but the immortal must remain sleeping.
At 4th level, the immortal can command a small army. 100 soldiers per level.
At 5th level Immortal, the character can summon 1 or more immortals of equal or lesser immortal level.

I haven't worked out the details of this yet, but have at it.

My Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition System/Pathfinder Characters/D&D 1 Castle Amber Module kira3696.tripod.com/CombatTracker.rar